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Unleashed Follow Up: Detained

Discussion in 'Critique & Feedback' started by Duncan Formosa, Jan 22, 2020.

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  1. #1 Duncan Formosa, Jan 22, 2020
    Finally got through the whole of the latest unleashed episode and got to my piece which was called "Detained."

    I think my first mistake was sending in half of an orchestrated piece, probably would have benefited more sending in the piano sketch which I've added here.

    Mike mentions that if you find that the melody is coming in a note early it's not the strongest version of it. Can anyone maybe explain what he means by this or direct me to one of the masterclasses where this is mentioned?



    Also, if anyone has the time to check out the piano sketch and let me know your opinions it would be greatly appreciated. I tried to write this for a small scene from a TV show just to practice scoring (also please excuse my playing.)

     
    Albert de la Fuente and Bjarke Tan like this.
  2. #2 Bjarke Tan, Jan 22, 2020
    from first impression, I am not sure if the intro is as strong as it could be it feels like its over too quickly. Otherwise I think you did a pretty good job with everything else but I would like to see you develop your ideas more that would be interesting.
    I am also not really sure what he means with "if you find that the melody is coming in a note early it's not the strongest version of it" Maybe he means a beat earlier than everything else in the piece?
     
    Duncan Formosa likes this.
  3. #3 Duncan Formosa, Jan 22, 2020
    When you say the intro is too short are you meaning the 17 second mark where it moves on? Was trying to score to picture as an exercise and the point of view changes from the main character (the cop) to the clumsy criminals and then kick the main theme back in as they see the police car in the distance ready to cuff them.

    I know Mike is always saying that the piece has to work on it's own as well as serve the picture so I wonder what the best way to do that is if the picture demands a quick change if that makes any sense.

    I'm planning on making this a recurring theme with many variations like John Williams does in the Star Wars movies, having the theme develop with the characters throughout the film.

    The other thing I'm struggling with is the orchestration, I'm trying to get "the incredibles" kind of orchestration. Just started the Orchestration 3 mc, so I'm hoping this gives me an idea on where to take it.
     
  4. #4 Bjarke Tan, Jan 22, 2020
    by the intro, I mean the first two chords that play in the beginning. I think the idea of making variations of the theme like John Williams could be interesting but I recommend spending a little more time on the ideas you already have if you can. It seems like the piece is too short for the ideas in it. They deserve more time.
    I am not very skilled in orchestration my self so I can't offer any advice on that sorry. Maybe just transcribe the orchestration from the Incredibles and figure out what makes it sound the way it does?
     
  5. #5 Duncan Formosa, Jan 22, 2020
    I did attempt to transcribe the incredibles but I started to wonder if some of the ideas would work the same.

    For example, I think the Incredibles has the melody played with trombones and trumpets. I tried that at first but I also wanted the trumpets to do the little chord bit when the melody is resting at 9 seconds.



    I wonder if that's a good way to score it though. Could 2 trumpets be on melody and another 2 be on the chords at the top? I started second guessing these things and then changed it to trombones and alto sax but maybe those two don't blend very well together.
     
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  6. #6 Albert de la Fuente, Jan 26, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2020
    I wouldn't use trumpets for the accompainment chords (unless it's in their lowest, least brilliant register, or unless its an antiphonal dialog), their conical bore makes their sound too overpowering, and it would obfuscate the melody. I'd use trumpets and/or trombones (they too have conical bore) for the melody, and give the accompainment to the horns, woodwinds and/or strings. Also, a woodwind like a sax can't compete with a conical bore brass like a trombone.

    In your case you have a quasi-antiphonal dialog, so some things could work, but I still would keep in mind the bore thing, the trumpets can't help drawing all the attention to themselves whdn playing.
     
    Rohann van Rensburg and Duncan Formosa like this.
  7. #7 Rohann van Rensburg, Jan 28, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2020
    I think he means getting to your last note too early. You have a start note, and a "target" note, in this case Ab is your start note and F is the note you finish the phrase on. I think what he means is that if you're having to repeat your "target" or "landing" note, it doesn't usually sound as strong to a listener as having the last note be the last note. This happens with the second part of the melody too, where you repeat the C.

    So Ab-G-F-F. When you get to that "F" the first time, it feels like you're going to keep moving with it, but then it repeats. It feels like you're "spoiling the ending", in a way. An alternative would be something like, i.e. Ab-G-Eb-F for the first part of the phrase. This might not seem like that big a deal, but little melodic details like this are really the important difference between most of us here and the legends of music. A melody that isn't strong enough will betray the world's greatest orchestration.

    Now I'm not sure if it solves the problem if you change the first part of the phrase and leave the ending of the melody as is with the repeated C, but this is what I gathered from his critique anyway.
     
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