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Should I add something here?

Discussion in 'Critique & Feedback' started by Jeff Hayat, Nov 15, 2018.

  1. #1 Jeff Hayat, Nov 15, 2018
    So, I have this cue, and currently, I have a string chord under the melody:

    ss.jpg



    Should I just leave it as is? I thought about adding some light stac woods, or maybe a leg line:





    The other thing I thought about doing was bringing in the harp from the beg, but I kinda like the way it comes in on the chord change.

    Thoughts?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. #2 Mike Verta, Nov 15, 2018
    I'm just waiting for you to finish the sentence. When does the phrase end?
     
  3. #3 Jeff Hayat, Nov 15, 2018
    Umm, another two bars later.... :)
     
  4. #4 Mike Verta, Nov 15, 2018
    I would suggest you post the phrase, and then perhaps it'll shed light on why you feel the need to decorate it a bunch before you've even said it once.
     
  5. #5 Jeff Hayat, Nov 15, 2018
    Gotcha.



    Not sure if I need to decorate... part of me is telling me it's fine; part of me is telling me it needs something.

    Thanks.
     
  6. #6 Mike Verta, Nov 15, 2018
    Okay, stop. Post a piano version, two-handed, playable, of just your main motif/theme.
     
  7. #7 Jeff Hayat, Nov 16, 2018
    Umm sorry - did I do something wrong by posting the orchestrated piece?

    Here's the pno:

     
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  8. #8 Alexander Schiborr, Nov 16, 2018
  9. #9 Mike Verta, Nov 16, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2018
    Not even remotely. It's just to get clear on this, we have to strip it down to what it really is first.

    And now we can tell when reduced, we don't have a clear and complete idea here. Drop the intro 20 seconds for now, and let's just look at the melody and underlying chord progression. The first thing to remember is that a V chord is like a question mark, like a rise in vocal inflection. And if everything you say? Is a question? We're never sure? When you're finished? You make a lot of statements? But you never return to the tonic?

    Until you do, we never breathe; we're never really oriented.
     
    David Healey likes this.
  10. #10 Paul Battersby, Nov 16, 2018
    My suggestion would be to go with the original but remove the glockenspiel. Then in a later restatement of the first sample you posted, put the glockenspiel back in and add in the staccato woodwinds from the 2nd sample to add further interest to a restated theme.
     
  11. #11 Jeff Hayat, Nov 16, 2018
    I am not quite sure I understand.

    Sure it returns to the tonic. Sure, I could have added the tonic/Gmaj to the piano breakdown:



    - but I dont understand how the presecnce of that chord will help to determine whether or not I should decorate under the Eng Hn.

    Thanks.
     
  12. #12 Bradley Boone, Nov 17, 2018
    Jeff, there's two ideas going on in this thread. It seems you're asking: "can I decorate this theme," and the respondents are asking "can we hear the full theme in its simplest (2-hand piano) form." People want to take a look under the hood to see what they're working with - can it be clarified, improved, more consistent, etc.? When you added the 13 second violin intro, it just complicated matters by obscuring the main idea. The intro wasn't strongly related to the thematic material and doesn't relate to the idea of augmenting the orchestration of the theme.

    Alexander's audio commentary gives good advice about chord/voice spacing, melodic rhythm framework (audience rhythmic expectations), accompaniment vs melodic rhythm (note against note counterpoint), implied harmonies in your melodic line, etc. [Alex, your pedal noise is pretty loud! ;)] I'd consider those comments, and Mike's advice about resolving chords, and revisit the main idea before decorating it.

    Specific info from me: your 1:02 excerpt's orchestration sounds fine, but the last cadence (IV-I) doesn't fully resolve. The last melodic tone is the subdominant in the high strings (the F) and we don't arrive satisfyingly on the C major (the E of the C major is displaced a couple of octaves lower in the final chord). Also, the G of the last chord is the loudest or longest sustaining sound instead of the root. You setup a I-vi-IV-V cadence in some of the piano versions (the recent :38 excerpt), but the final cadence in the orchestrated is weaker (plagal). Also, the piano excerpt's V-I cadence isn't strong because the bass line and melody both arrive at the second scale degree (D). The V-I would sound stronger with the G to C in the bass.
     
  13. #13 Jeff Hayat, Nov 18, 2018
    Hi

    I appreciate the thoughts and the time - I really do. To be honest, I was not after a critique on the entire peice. I am not opposed to hearing opinions - regardless of what they are - but the only thing I was really looking for this time around was whether or not to "decorate" under the melody, and add to the string chord. Yes - the very beginning is far from great; the cue is a WIP, and I will make changes as I move along, and that includes orchestration changes and doing work to the beginning. This was not meant to be "how's my peice - does it all work?"... as it still needs attention. And as part of that attention, I was simply wanting to find out if I should add anything under the melody. And I understand context; I was not, however, thinking that the cue needs to be in a finished state (or almost) to determine if another element or two are needed in that spot.

    Thanks.
     
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  14. #14 Adam Alake, Nov 18, 2018
    Yet the orchestration is directly linked to the composition - the stronger and more refined the primary idea, the less need to decorate it through orchestration.
     
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  15. #15 Alexander Schiborr, Nov 18, 2018
    Hi Jeff,
    I don´t know if you went through my review and though my review was not only focussed on your question regarding the decoration and orchestration I also spoke a bit about that there. Having said that: Sure more power to you if you are not that much interested into my remarks or others: Still choices in composition (range, rhythm, harmony, voices etc ppp) are directly linked to the way how you are orchestrate it and therefore that is also important. But no problem, if you wish just to have remarks on your orchestration then I do next time really only that. Hope that helps.
    Cheers,
    Alex
     
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