The Name Game Pro Tip:
  1. Didja accidentally blow through the whole, "We're using our real names" thing on registration? No problem, just send me (Mike) a Conversation message and I'll get you sorted, by which I mean hammered-into-obedient-line because I'm SO about having a lot of individuality-destroying, oppressive shit all over my forum.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. You're only as good as the harshest criticism you're willing to hear.
    Dismiss Notice

Request for honest feedback

Discussion in 'Critique & Feedback' started by Bjarke Tan, Mar 12, 2018.

  1. #1 Bjarke Tan, Mar 12, 2018
    hi :)
    I hope everyone is doing well
    Would it be okay if i could have honest feedback on a composition i recently composed? Unfortunately I don't have sheet music for the piece as it was composed in a daw

    Thanks a lot in advance
    Kind regards
    Bjarke tan :)
     
    Alexander Schiborr likes this.
  2. #2 Doug Gibson, Mar 12, 2018
    Honest feedback:

    I could only skim thru it. Long, slow pieces are very difficult. Particularly when looking to grab people attention. It can be done.

    This just fell into a "too long - no much happening" for me to listen.

    It would also, honestly take me too long to go through every point.

    The best thing I can offer is to study in detail scores that are very successful, for the scheme you are looking to compose

    Parsifal comes to mind. A masterpiece.

     
  3. #3 Paul T McGraw, Mar 19, 2018
    I also could not listen to the full track. There just wasn't anything to hold my interest.
     
  4. #4 Bjarke Tan, Mar 20, 2018
    Thanks for the comments but is there anything specific about it you think could be improved sorry if i sound rude but that what i meant with feedback :)
     
  5. #5 Alexander Schiborr, Mar 20, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
    Hey Bjarke,

    Thanks for sharing. I guess the difficulty following your pieces is a bit that it goes nowhere really and it has most of the time not even a melody or even a thing of motif regardless if it is a melody or just a few notes figure or chordal relation thing. You feature bits and pieces of ideas but I can´t make out which of these are your story telling anchor. Sometimes I think: Oh right, here is it in your piece and then I got the fist in my face from you to tell me: No my friend, it is not. So here it starts to feel a bit random to my ears. It is not clear where you are going with your ideas at all. And I guess that is jarring and uninteresting to listen which Paul mentioned in his post.

    My recommendation is: Learn basic principles of creating short pieces with strong chord progressions and motifs. Forget about all these nice twinkly flowing textures because when you have nothing to say, those beautiful texture won´t help you anways to say something really. Sure..they sound nice and I think they do, but their real content is pretty much zero self carrying in your case here.

    Grab a Piano and learn to write basic short tracks with some familiar cadences. sophistication in writing is not achieved by writing pseudo sophisticated music, it is achieved by starting writing basic simple tunes. When you have mastered this, then head on and make more complex things. Build your house from the ground not from the top.

    PS: I am always honest! :)
     
  6. #6 Paul T McGraw, Mar 20, 2018
    Your samples are fine. The mix is fine. The textures are fine. You could be an understudy for HZ and use this track in the next blockbuster movie. This track is better than 90% of Dunkirk.

    The problem is that without melody, motives, harmony and form, in my opinion, is that it is not music. It is just sound. So my problem with your track is a matter of aesthetics. For film music I would never purchase a CD (or MP3) of Dunkirk, except maybe to burn it in protest, but I own almost all of the CDs of John Williams music.

    Since this forum primarily tilts toward the craft of composition and orchestration, you are not likely to find an audience for HZ style tracks here. But I am sure the HZ fans gather somewhere, I just don't know where.
     
  7. #7 Alexander Schiborr, Mar 20, 2018
    Hej Paul,

    Hope you are doing allright. Short question: But did the OP mentioned that he wanted to achieve any HZ Sound? I coudln´t find it anywhere so I am not sure why you bring in the HZ analogy I think that the OP was just interested about opinions, also his track doesn´t sound anything familiar to HZ work. Maybe you bring the analogy because of the missing melody thing? But let me tell you though you know I am not big into that Zimmer sound that Hans has done definitely some memorable themes in his past (ecspecially his older soundtracks). Regarding the Dunkirk OST I think the intention was primarly not to create any normal melodic orchestral based music. I mean I see HZ anyways more into the realm of a "composer" who wants to create "atmoshperes" and "sound design" and is eager for the big sounding moment with his walls of Brass / Strings. HZ is trying to make "the sound larger than life. So back to this track here: I think the OP is more interested to know what to do in terms of development to better his track?
     
  8. #8 Bjarke Tan, Mar 20, 2018
    *I think the OP is more interested to know what to do in terms of development to better his track?*
    Thats right :)
    I am not that focused on becoming the next hanz zimmer but more in the direction of john williams, liszt, alan sivilstry etc but of course still remaining original i know i am no way near there but thats the goal i am working towards to :)

    Thanks a lot for taking the time to listen and write your comments and feedback: Alexander Schiborr, Paul T McGraw and Doug Gibson :)
     
  9. #9 Paul T McGraw, Mar 20, 2018
    You are correct, the OP did not mention HZ. I made the connection all on my own, so if I offended anyone I apologize.
     
  10. #10 Paul T McGraw, Mar 20, 2018
    If you want to compose using themes, melodies and motives, this is a great forum for you. And in addition to @Mike Verta we have @Alexander Schiborr and @Doug Gibson very active on this forum. Mike has been a professional composer for a long, long time. Doug attended Julliard and is very generous with his help here. And Alexander is a composer of enormous energy, a great ear, and steadily growing skill. His latest compositions are great examples of being original while staying true to the musical values exemplified by JW.
     
  11. #11 Alexander Schiborr, Mar 20, 2018
    Ah I see. Well I wasn´t sure. All good. :)
     
  12. #12 Alexander Schiborr, Mar 20, 2018
    Allright, I hope you have a use from our comments here. If you have anything very specific, just ask, everybody is cool here, and wants to help :)
     
  13. #13 Bjarke Tan, Mar 20, 2018
    @ Paul T McGraw I am aware of mike Verta since it was through him I was introduced to the forum I think through the masterclasses or the youtube videos :)
    I haven't been aware of the others before now unfortunately but they have been very helpful so far :)

    @ Alexander schiborr thanks a lot, it has been very helpful so far :)
     
  14. #14 Bradley Boone, Mar 20, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
    I listened through it twice and have a couple of questions:
    @Bjarke Tan what was your intention behind the piece? To set a mood or atmosphere? To demonstrate orchestal/choral colors?
    The answers to this inform what I'd have to say about it (other than I don't care for the trumpet samples if you're going for a natural/non-synthy sound).
    This particular piece does not show that interest in Silvestri/Williams/Listz, and Doug/Paul/Alexander have made comments related to support that belief. The piece lacks melody/motives/harmonic movement, which the composers you cite as influences were exceptional at writing. I'll give some specifics below, but a quick diversion to the HZ comments.

    A lot of HZ's tracks (and his team) have an atmospheric (not melodic) quality, and may not be interesting to listen to as independent musical pieces. I can see how one could hear OP's chart and hear his influence. So, fair game to make the comparison.

    Take this excerpt as an example. Blatantly quotes Elgar's famous Enigma "Nimrod" theme but hyper-elongated to the point where in parts it is barely recognizable (later in the cue the quote comes closer to the performance tempo of Elgar's original). An orchestra would hate playing this, and there's a lot of synth support later in the track that are HZ's trademarks, but at least it has a foundation to build on (the Nimrod motive). OP's track has some flavor of this, so I don't see it as a big leap for Paul. I also agree with Alexander about the music aiming to be larger than life (crazy long sustained brass tones at impossible dynamics).
    ----- ----- ----- ----- -----
    Back to OP's piece:

    Good: orchestral colors, contrast (more softs would help),

    Bad: percussion in parts is too loud, the trumpet is rough (especially around 3:28)

    Improve: Take your mix, turn it down (or make a piano reduction) and play some melodic lines or motifs over your harmonies. It will be difficult because the harmonic rhythm is so static (several minutes of the same chord under shifting sonorities).

    You have some proto-melodic figures in there, but they don't stick with the listener. Restate them more often (and expand them into more developed ideas, maybe even a phrase length idea). Try playing two motives in succession or simultaneously (these are common ways of developing a theme). You can try them at double speed or half speed (diminution or augmentation). Grab a theme, and develop it.

    Harmony adds interest, helps define phrases, supports countermelodies, and is another layer of interest. There's a timelessness to very long sustained passages like your track, which is cool if that's your intent (see Interstellar, or minimalist composers, or...well you get the idea). Maybe look for more places to add harmonic motion (or a modulation and return).

    Hope it helps and thanks for posting.
     
    Alexander Schiborr likes this.
  15. #15 Bjarke Tan, Mar 20, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
    Thanks for the comment and feedback @ Bradley Boone
    i was mostly focusing on composing something that had a happy feel to it not too happy but it was one of the main goal i tried to compose in the style similar to john adamich and something similar to franz liszt symphonic poems in terms of structure not in terms of length but that had a similar feel as the structure that the symphonic poems have the reason why it doesn't sound as if it was influenced by them is probably because my skill level isn't there yet

    my goal is probably closer to demonstrate orchestal/choral colors i did try to compose a melody for the piece if i remeber right the choir at some part should play what i came up with

    i am not saying that to deny the feedback i have gotten at all i am just saying it for the record

    the feedback is very usefull and can help me improve my skills as i said the piece is about to the edge of what i can compose and i am not at the skill level of franz liszt etc but its the direction i am working towards too so that may explain it

    its very rarer that i listen to hanz zimmer i don't dislike his music but it just because most of my time listening to music goes to listening to the type of music in the direction of franz liszt (probably listened to over 100 of hes pieces xD) john williams etcs i haven't actually heard the Dunkirk soundtrack or seen the movie i don't even know what it is about again not to deny that it may sound similar just saying it for the record and because it seems like it get compeard to hanz zimmer often which is okay but just saying that it wasn't intentional to sound similar

    again thanks a lot for the comment @ Bradley Boone and sorry if i misunderstood anything
     
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)

Share This Page