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My First Live Recording — Need Feedback

Discussion in 'Critique & Feedback' started by Abdulrahman Al-Othman, Nov 26, 2018.

  1. Hi.

    I hope everyone is doing well. This is the first time in my life to record something live with a 50-piece orchestra. Seeing and hearing my composition brought to life is an indescribable feeling.

    Speaking of "indescribable feeling", I'm sure Disney fans get it, I was heavily inspired by the work of Alan Menken. I wish @Mike Verta would do a class about this legendary composer who scored 8 Oscars. I'm glad everyone who listened to my composition told me that it's very Disney-like which is what I intended.

    I hope one day I could score something for Disney :)

     
  2. Congrats on the live recording, it is always amazing to work with great musicians!

    Really enjoyed this and love the whole sentiment you achieve here. I'm also a huge Menken and actually just got the whole 'Disney Fakebook'. The only suggestion I would make is to try and add a bit more rhythmic interest in your melody (like Menken) to make your theme more distinctive and thus, more memorable. Overall though, really liked your piece!
     
  3. Thank you, @Benjamin Goldman

    I really appreciate your comment as you're the first one to comment here. You just made my day brighter with your compliment.

    I must say I'm a huge fan of Alan Menken just like you. It's sad that I don't see anyone talking about him in Facebook groups, forums or any social media talking about music. Let's just appreciate the fact that he's the only living being to score 8 Oscars. You are right about his rhythmic work. I prayed that my melody could be easy to remember and people can recognize it if they hear it in the future. You know, for someone like me who never had any musical training or education, I didn't expect this day to come. The day where I get to record my own live performance. I thank God for that!

    I promise that I will get better with time and you could expect another live performance from me in January. I hope so.

    Until then, keep on composing!
     
  4. Couldn't agree more and considering Menken's truly memorable work, why he is not mentioned more! There are few composers who's melodies can be instantly recalled by the majority of people.

    Looking forward to your next piece! :)
     
    George Streicher likes this.
  5. Thanks!
     
  6. #6 Michael Antrum, Nov 27, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2018
    How wonderful that you have had your first live session. It's something I have yet to do myself, but I need to be better before I am ready for that.

    Where you present for the session, or was it done remotely ? I see you had someone else help with the orchestration. I am curious to know if they made suggestions or alterations to your original score, and if it differed significantly with what you had notated.

    As regards the piece, it was 1'22 in length, so you didn't have long to develop the melody, but I saw that you used some signature Disney devices and orchestrations that absolutely told me where we were.

    If I had to nit-pick, I thought the Woodwinds between 0'07 and 0'15 got a bit 'organ like', and whilst it could have been something to do with the mix, I think the chords there could have benefited from a more open voicing or a little more movement.

    But apart from that I was really impressed - and if that had turned up as a short cue in an actual Disney movie it certainly wouldn't have been out of place, which is about as high a compliment there is.

    I look forward to listening to you next project.

    (Oh, and I think Alan Menkin is pretty terrific too. I think a lot of people are just too busy being Epic and Sound Designery these days. It might not be cool, but sometimes I stick on the soundtrack to Beauty and the Beast (one of my personal favourites) at full volume whilst I'm barrelling down the motorway at a rate of knots - though if you tell anyone about this, I will deny it !)
     
    Abdulrahman Al-Othman likes this.
  7. Thank you so much, Mr. @Michael Antrum !

    I'll be dropping a video review in my channel. Be sure to subscribe. It will answer all your questions.

    Regarding the orchestration, I'm not a good transcriber. I hired someone who can transcribe and orchestrate my composition. By that time, I already made a piano sketch of the piece and an orchestrated mockup. But as you know, every composer needs an orchestrator to guide him. There has been some changes made to the score by the orchestrater. For example, at 45 seconds, instead of making normal brass chords, he added movements to the horns to accompany my string movement. It's funny that he relied too much on my mockup orchestration to make some final decisions. For example, I choose to add triangles, I choose to have a Harp playing with the brass at 20 seconds. Even the Harp at 54 wasn't even in the original score. I added it later using midi sample along with the midi choir.

    A lot of versions of the orchestration were introduced to me and got rejected. I wanted to add more stuff here and there. Even after recording, I still modified the harp part like I told you.

    So as you can see it was a great collaboration and I had a big part in the orchestration process. I hope that answered your question :)
     
  8. "I did feel like around :53 things started to feel a bit muddy"
    You mean when I added the extra notes for the Harp to accompany the melody, things got muddy? It was a decision made after printing the score and recording it. I felt like it "must" be there. I cam almost hear it. I should add it. I didn't know they're ruining the melody?

    "The melody didn't get a chance to really develop"
    I couldn't agree more. The melody deserve more than 1.2 minutes to let it sink inside the human brain. I tried so hard to introduce different variations of the melody from joyful woodwinds, tender brass to soaring strings and epic choir ending. I think it didn't create the "goosebumps" I was hoping for some listeners I guess.
     
  9. No, man. Of course I will take them. Otherwise, why did I posted this in the first place, right?
    Listen...
    The recording is not the best in the world. Everything was on budget. I mean, what do you expect from a $200 session? I contacted a professional string shared session and they asked me I need 12 minutes to record this and I only got 7 from the other guys. My mixer went through hell to fix this. He had to survive the mic bleeding, the bad acoustic, the poor performance and the bad mics. I'm just really happy I came with something to be proud of.

    Again, I'm taking your advice and everybody's. I thank you all who commented here from the bottom of my heart. <3
     
  10. Your piece does evoke a Disney vibe. I liked it. Your poor experience with the live session players is particularly interesting. I would love to hear more about that.
     
    Rohann van Rensburg likes this.
  11. :eek:
    :(

    So 12 minutes from the strings and 7 minutes from the brass. For $200. Did that include the orchestration ?

    I mean, I don't really know if that is any of my business, but if this was all for $200 you got a pretty good deal.
    No, this is not up to Disney level, but you can't expect that. It sounds like they are still sight reading your piece,
    and obviously some technical issues.

    Be proud. You got one under belt. To many more
     
  12. So 12 minutes from the strings and 7 minutes from the brass. For $200. Did that include the orchestration ?

    Short answer: No.
    The orchestration was done by my friend, Vladimir Tubic:
    https://www.upwork.com/fl/vladimirtubic
    As for the session time, I've asked a different company who do professional shared sessions for string orchestra each month about this piece. They told me we need 12 minutes to record it. They have the finest Bulgarian string players.
    From the company I paid, they offer 7 minutes total session time for the entire orchestra!
    The score was mixed by Julian:
    https://www.upwork.com/fl/julianvirag

    Be proud. You got one under belt. To many more

    I am proud! :D
    And another one with the same guys coming January. I'm hoping it would be around 2.5-3 minutes. Let's hope they can do better.
     
  13. You'll need to book them for at least 30 minutes then.
     
  14. Um, no. They’re offering only 14 minutes, so…
     
  15. Expect a similar result.
    A general measurement is 1 min of recorded music per 10 min of studio time.

    I would shorten the the work you are looking to record to about 1:30.
     
  16. I understand, so I could take advantage of the session time. But I really want to create something long. I have so many ideas and I don't won't to do them injustice by not having enough time to develop the melody.
     
  17. I wish you the best with this..... sincerely. I can't understand why you would want to "do them injustice" by knowingly not allowing enough time for it to be done properly.

    I guess it depends on your goals, and life situation etc. In my mind....achieving a personal goal of is one thing. Indeed it is a big accomplishment what you have already achieved. If your goal is to become a high end film composer... then learn to do things exceptional from the start.

    Once you make the leap to be a hired person people are going to look for flaws. That's their duty. The spot at :53 would get you fired in a second.
    The "process" you are using is not going to work well.

    It's probably futile for me to go on a diatribe here about this. The wisest and most positive thing I can advise is getting in touch with someone like @Thomas Bryla
    who has experience with these exact orchestra's and who gets exceptional results from them.

    If it was I, I would much rather wait until I had the budget for the correct amount of time. The company will have other sessions.
     
    Rohann van Rensburg likes this.
  18. Once you make the leap to be a hired person people are going to look for flaws. That's their duty.

    Couldn't agree more!

    The spot at :53 would get you fired in a second

    Omg! What was it with this part? The orchestration, mixing or the midi Harp???
     
  19. It was :51 upon listening again.

    You know what else you could do, and if I was in your spot and HAD to get this amount of music done in this short of time.

    Write a piece for Voice and orchestra. I would use - say the concert master- and give them a little solo/ featured part.

    This way the rest of the group can have very easy accompaniment figures

    Then in a separate session record the vocalist.

    For this - very 70's feeling- song we recorded the singer in NYC and the orchestra is in Prague. The keyboard/drums/bass where also a separate session

     
    Rohann van Rensburg likes this.

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