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Language Learning and Transcription

Discussion in 'Tips, Tricks & Talk' started by Rohann van Rensburg, Nov 9, 2018.

  1. For geeks (or nerds?) who like academic explanations. Before encountering Mike's classes I hadn't really considered the concept, but I find the parallels absolutely fascinating. I know, the obvious is "it is a language", but there are an astounding amount of people who don't think so and instead think that plugging away at theory is your best bet when starting out.

    It illustrates why one needs to listen, deliberately and intentionally, to music in order to "get it" and appreciate it, but to also transcribe it in order to contextualize it and understand what is being said in a non-abstract manner (hence the usefulness of getting it "under your fingers" on piano and not just following along on an existing score).

     
  2. We learn to speak our first language by transcribing. We hear, try to imitate, and are corrected. We do not learn parts of speech and grammar. That theory comes later.
     
    Steve Schow likes this.
  3. #3 Rohann van Rensburg, Nov 9, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2018
    That's basically what the video gets at -- none of the "traditional" means of language learning actually work, but continually inputting chunks of language with context improves language acquisition. I think the parallel with transcription is pretty fantastic -- you not only listen to what you're trying to imitate, and you don't simply isolate chords and melodic ideas out of context (the way you would if learning pure theory), you figure out the "meaning" of musical passages and patterns in context. He's being sarcastic in the beginning when he talks about grammar and flash cards.

    I often think I don't allow my brain to do enough of the legwork automatically. I like to analyze pieces after transcribing, but I often wonder if sheer volume of transcription would achieve more.
     
  4. No, I get it. This is just a total non-debate, unless you've never seen a child learn to speak, I guess. Plus, the world's best multi-linguists will attest that if you are constantly translating from one language to another, you're running at half-speed and will never be truly fluent. If every word requires a lookup and cross-reference, you can't keep up. You must simply learn to think in the other language(s). Immersion is the fastest way to do this. Someone hands you water and says, "agua," and you file it is as agua, not "agua means water." The clear wet stuff is agua.

    Music is precisely, exactly like this, given that it's just another language.
     
    Martin Hoffmann likes this.
  5. It's just surprising to me how many music instructors there are that don't emphasize this kind of thing. I mean the brilliant musicians that happen to also have declarative expertise get it, and talk about it (i.e. Guthrie Govan), but a lot of people think "grammar" is the way to go, and even within language learning, unproven (or outright disproven) methods of learning tend to dominate apps and programs.
    Certainly immersion is the best way, because you have that instant feedback without needing to reference and second guess -- someone provides context for you, and does so only when you require it. I kind of think this is like transcribing with the actual score on hand, so you can check your work after a few bars and see where you were incorrect. He gives another example about watching TV in another language and having the subtitles on in that language, and how that (according to a study he cites) improved language acquisition significantly more than just watching the show in that language. Interestingly, having subtitles on in your native language means zero acquisition occurs.
     
  6. It is precisely like transcribing with the score on hand, which is why I recommend transcribing with the score on hand. :)
     
    David Healey likes this.
  7. Another video that I think is relevant here. There is an interesting bar chart around 10 minutes in that compares those who learnt a language through grammatical rules (theory) and those who learnt by listening to other people speaking the language.

     

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