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Composing Challenge 1

Discussion in 'Critique & Feedback' started by Duncan Formosa, Mar 12, 2023.

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  1. #1 Duncan Formosa, Mar 12, 2023
     
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  2. #2 Sylvain Provenzano, Mar 13, 2023
    Michael Lückgen and Duncan Formosa like this.
  3. #3 Duncan Formosa, Mar 13, 2023
    Nice one! My only problem with it is I'm struggling to lock onto the melody in the first half. I think it's mainly down to your arppegios being done higher than your melody as well as the velocity maybe being a bit too hard. That's what my ear is being drawn to the most. After that it was easier to pick up. Probably wouldn't be a problem if it gets orchestrated a certain way!

    Other than that I think it's a really nice piece, good job!
     
    Sylvain Provenzano likes this.
  4. #4 Sylvain Provenzano, Mar 13, 2023
    It's an unedited live playing and I'm not a great player so it's probably the issue (or maybe the arpeggio is too close to the melody or too busy I don't know).

    Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it. I hope there will be more participations after that.
     
  5. #5 Duncan Formosa, Mar 13, 2023
    @Sylvain Provenzano I'd be curious to hear an orchestrated version if you're up for it. I'm thinking of doing the same with mine and refine it a bit
     
  6. #6 Sylvain Provenzano, Mar 14, 2023
  7. #7 Carlos Riesco, Mar 14, 2023
    Hey Duncan, thank you for doing this.

    Regarding your piece, I like the Em when you repeat the first section, but then I felt frustrated with that little extension in the resolution at 0.58, why don't do just C-B-C in the melody? It felt more natural the second time when you added the harmony in the right hand at the end, but not sure if that's the reason, or because it's a repetition.

    I really like your piece. I also struggle a little to lock onto the melody as Duncan said, but I think is just a performance issue.

    Here is my entry:
     
  8. #8 Sylvain Provenzano, Mar 15, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2023
    Thank you, yours is good too ! I particulary like the mood and the chord sequence at the end (CMaj7/G - FMaj7 - Bsus2 - F5).
     
  9. #9 Carlos Riesco, Mar 16, 2023
    Just realized you posted a new version. I think it's more clear now. Maybe, if you want to try it, you can add one bar at the beginning with only the arpeggio, I think that will separate even more the melody.
     
  10. #10 Duncan Formosa, Mar 20, 2023
    I'm not sure if I 100% sure if I understand what you are saying for this part but if I've interpreted this correctly I'm not sure that this works since it's breaking an already established pattern. I find this to be more frustrating and I feel that just doing C-B-C in the melody is now forcing me to change how the chords on the left hand go. My counter argument would also be that it's not meant to feel resolved just yet since we're not near the end of the piece, there's still another section to come up (of course that doesn't mean that the way I done it is actually effective.)



    It's interesting that it didn't bother you at the end though. If I had to take a guess, I don't think it's the melody part that's throwing you off but maybe the chords? at 0.58 the chords are Em to Csus4. The second time round it's actually playing a C to Csus4 to change it up a little and give it a bit more of a resolution.

    I like your piece @Carlos Riesco, there's just a couple of moments that I think could land a little better. Let me know if you agree or not


    The new version is definitely easier to follow. Here's a little idea on how you could orchestrate it, it's very very very very rough but there might be some ideas there to jump start things.
     
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  11. #11 Sylvain Provenzano, Mar 20, 2023
    Wow, that's great ! And it's quite close of what I have in mind actually. I've chosen the bassoon to play the melody for the first part but I'm struggling with the background (that's where I'm stuck for now). Then I want to try a trumpet where you used the cello and finish with the strings like you did.

    Thx for your help Duncan, you give me strength to persevere.
     
    Duncan Formosa likes this.
  12. #12 Duncan Formosa, Mar 20, 2023
    I think Bassoon is an obvious choice to begin with given how you have played it on the piano. It can cover all the notes especially when it's transitioning to the next section. I'm also not 100% sure what else you would add to that section. Maybe you don't need all that much though? What if you just have some trem violins in the same range as the arpeggios on the piano as a kind of pad? So you have Bassoon on melody, piano doing the arp and strings acting as a pad? Save your colours for the second half. I think if you tried having flutes or strings doing the arp like the piano you might end up drowning out the melody like in the first sketch, so keeping it as simple as possible might be the most effective thing to do.

    Interesting that you want to go with trumpet instead of the cello though. Assuming that you are putting the trumpet in the same range as you have the melodt in your piano sketch, I think trumpet might not work as well as it's not really in the meat range for that instrument, might be a little low. If you are wanting a brass instrument though I'm sure a horn or trombone could do that range easily.

    Happy to help in any way I can, glad you found it useful!
     
  13. #13 Carlos Riesco, Mar 21, 2023
    After playing a bit with your piece I think what bothers me is the rhythmic change in the melody, because the melody always start with 3 eighth notes, but at 0.58 you change that, and for me that C-B is too strong to not be resolved (maybe is just me) so I came up with this alternative (you don't have to like, is just 1 opinion):




    The first time I actually played the G note at the end, but it seems that it got blurred with the left hand chord.
    Totally agree that the key change is a bit harsh, I'll try to find a better way.
    Thanks for your feedback.
     
  14. #14 Matthias Calis, Mar 21, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2023
    This is a great idea, helped me get out of a recent (and long-lasting) creative drought, so thanks!

    Here is my attempt, pedal tone is F:
    (EDIT: previous version was off the beat in places, so I went back to address that)

     
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  15. #15 Duncan Formosa, Mar 22, 2023
    Nice work! Lots of nice little ideas in that piece. Here's my feedback if you're interested, tried a couple of things out as well.

     
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  16. #16 Matthias Calis, Mar 23, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2023
    Thank you so much Duncan. This is really, really valuable advice. Other people, commenting on other pieces of mine have said similar things and you know what's strange? For the past half year or so when I am just writing for fun, I always run out of steam at exactly 1 minute, like, to the second. So being given not only the advice to expand, but a concrete example of how I could expand is really valuable.

    I struggled with the timing too, but the opening 12 seconds is 3/4 time at 90bpm. Cubase doesn't have a lot of options to format the score properly, but something like this:

    [​IMG]

    Thank you for your generosity in giving feedback to everyone that's posted here. I hope to contribute some of my layman's thoughts to what's been shared here soon.
     
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  17. #17 Duncan Formosa, Mar 23, 2023
    I'm really glad you found it helpful, never sure if my feedback makes sense haha!

    When in doubt, repeat it all out. 9/10 we get bored of our own music before the listener does. If you want more examples of expanding on the same idea over and over again, check out the score to Beethoven's 5th, Danse Macabre Saint Saens (all of which you can find for free online at IMSPL) and also check out the score for Christopher Tin's Sogno di Volare which you can find free (and legal) here (it also has a bunch of other pieces he wrote for his "To Shiver the Sky" concert) all you need to do is create a free account to view it.

    https://www.boosey.com/cr/perusals/score?id=39328
     
  18. #18 Michael Lückgen, Mar 23, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2023
    Great Challenge and great pieces so far!

    Thank you for kickstarting this Duncan.
    This forced me to do a style I had in my mind for month and finally got to sneak in that progression from BTTF.

    Here is mine:
     
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  19. #19 Michael Lückgen, Mar 24, 2023
    Really nice piece. Love your chords. And the second version got much better!

    Looking forward to your orchestrated version.

    I'm not sure if having an intro in 3/4 is a good idea here. It probably is doable, but why make it so hard for yourself and the listener? An intro is there to get the listener used to what is about to come. If you start with 3/4 and then switch to 4/4 it's like saying: A long time ago in a galaxy far far away... Captain America did some stuff"
    But I agree with Duncans feedback that there are really nice ideas in there, even though they feel unconnected.
     
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  20. #20 Duncan Formosa, Mar 24, 2023
    @Michael Lückgen trying to record some feedback for you. One thing I've noticed is that I'm really bad at trying to articulate my music thoughts, so bare with me. To quickly summarise, good rhythmic idea in your melody and it's good that you try and keep it consistent throughout. The only problem is that it's still feeling very random because of your chords (which I know I've mentioned a few times on your previous pieces) but I think I know what it is you need to do to fix that...I just need to find a way to try and explain it in a way that makes sense.
     
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