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Cœur à l'ouvrage

Discussion in 'Critique & Feedback' started by Samuel Le Tonquèze, Apr 8, 2018.

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  1. #1 Samuel Le Tonquèze, Apr 8, 2018
    Hi all,
    Few days ago, I tried to make a little piece with choirs and orchestral intruments.
    I wish I had your feedback about it.
    I think the dynamics of this piece is too large. Beginning too low compare to the end.
    How about the playability of this piece?
    How about orchestration?
    Thanks



    I made some modifications on percussion in this version :
     
    Paul T McGraw and John Eldridge like this.
  2. #2 John Eldridge, Apr 8, 2018
    Nice piece, Samuel. Thanks for sharing.

    What I heard was four distinct sections:
    1) 0:00 - 0:40 : Choirs introducing a strong upward fifth interval pattern followed by downward motion answer
    2) 0:40 - 1:12 : Lovely melodic cello line and woodwind answers
    3) 1:12 - 2:00 : Bouncy violin dance section
    4) 2:00 - 2:53 : Sweeping choirs and violins reprising the themes from first section.

    Unclear if your structure is motivated by demo contest requirements, but if you have flexibility, here are my thoughts.

    Sections 1 and 4 were clearly related, but sections 2 and 3 were divergent enough that it was harder to make the connection. Section 2 is really lovely, but is missing an opportunity to tie it to section 1. For instance, right at the beginning of section 2 I was wishing for some horns to come back to that fifth interval pattern. It would lead us into the new section and it fits right on top of the existing line well. And section 2 was so great, but too short leaving me wanting to hear more of it right as it was building. If the piece is time constrained I'd happily trade section 3 out completely for another 50 seconds of letting section 2 build with some of the original two patterns sprinkled in the background to tie it all together.

    Minor rendering issue: would be good to render with a longer tail so that it doesn't cut off the sound at the end.

    Nice work.
     
    Samuel Le Tonquèze likes this.
  3. #3 Doug Gibson, Apr 9, 2018
    I must say, even though there are clearly artificial sounding spots, the samples sound really good. Amazing how far the technology has
    come along.

    The instrumental sections are the weakest. I would just let the choirs go throughout. Make it a choral piece, and have them always in the foreground. (Delete from :40 to 1:40 ish) That music is for another movement or piece.
     
    Samuel Le Tonquèze likes this.
  4. #4 Alexander Schiborr, Apr 9, 2018
    Hej Samuel, thanks for sharing your piece. I like the mood you setup in your piece though I have a little my concerns with the stylistics in orchestration throughout the piece. Sometimes I feel you want that piece to be choral, sometimes more folkloristic, sometimes even more epic. So..probably you want that all to be in one piece which can work when you follow a bit more approach like 2SFH does with their vibrant and evocative orchestration and well thought buildups. What I see here as a little downer are those expactations you create to the listener but you are not so much fullfilling them. Like after the 40 seconds of that long introduction I felt after the Choirs swell that sometimes big should come, but it doesn´t. That I mean false expactations fullfillment. But don´t get me wrong I like the 2nd part, but I don´t feel that this part is logic after that choir intense crescendo. Another thing is how you connect those parts, I think they should more flow and interlock. You can achieve better results in maintaining instruments not just everything stopping but maintaining that one or the other instruments continues playing a melodic line or a rhythm or something. But this is more a compositional thing. Not everybody is keen on modulation and some people avoid that like the pest, but I think your piece could at least here and there benefit from a little modulation to increase the interest. You stay very safe during the 3 minutes and avoid any real keycenter change at all. Which is per se not wrong to do, but then you should make sure that you have a good logical buildup in your piece.

    The orchestration is not bad, but very focussed on either strings, or choirs or a mix of both of them. Which in the end after a while is a bit boring to my ears. I encourage you also to use other palettes in the orchestra, like Woodwinds and Brass and melodic percussion like the Glockenspiel, Tubular Bells, and Strings plucked instruments like the harp. Again..it is not wrong to use just strings and choirs for your mainlines but to maintain it fresh you need to shift more orchestrationally around.

    And last but not least: I think you should spent a bit more of your focus on pure composition and structure of your piece. Start sketching out such tracks on the Piano first BEFORE you enter the orchestration.
     
    Samuel Le Tonquèze likes this.
  5. #5 Samuel Le Tonquèze, Apr 9, 2018
    Thank you all, for your advices.

    Context: Only few days to make a 3mn piece with this Choirs library and optionally more instruments (any genre). I was looking for a project with some constraints, then for me, this contest was a challenge, and after 28 hours (diluted in a month), its my result.

    @John Eldridge : Thank you. I agree with you about the release of the sound at the end of the piece. I should have added some reverb. There are definitely problems between sections, you are right.

    @Doug Gibson : Thanks, I didn't want to make a piece only with Choral singing. Nevertheless, I absolutely wanted to start and finish with it.

    @Alexander Schiborr : Thank you too, for your long analysis.
    Making an epic music was not necessarily my goal, although I wanted to finish the piece with a big choral chord.
    Concerning 2SFH, they usually make longer pieces from 3mn to 5mn, with time to place and build a story. But I understand, when you said that the audience can be frustrated, when the rise and buildup was not totally accomplished in my piece.
    I also accept comments about sections that are not well linked together, and will take your advice to maintain instruments between sections to make connections.
    I will follow your works on this forum. Building from a piano sketching to an orchestral piece is a good advice.
    Unfortunately, I will not be able to make a new version because the library's free trial period has expired.
     
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