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Bloodborne Mockup

Discussion in 'Critique & Feedback' started by Martin Hoffmann, Jan 1, 2020.

  1. Hi!

    I have been working on this Bloodborne mockup for a while, with very long breaks in between picking it up again. And I think I'm at a point where it just doesn't make much sense to continue. I learned a bunch, but ultimately didn't come as close as I wanted an I know for sure there's plenty of stuff that I got wrong, but can't figure out and it's impossible to get the original score for this.
    I'm not even sure anymore it's such a good reference track to balance a template to and overall I'm getting quite sick of it.

    I've only done the first half, partly because of copyright/fair use concerns and partly because I don't think the second half is worth the time to mock it up too (I had started though). Let me know what you think of how far I got and also if you agree that I should move on to doing something else:



    Thanks for listening!


    Original track for comparison:

     
    Daniel Casson likes this.
  2. Love this score, even bought it on CD from Japan for like $40. I do wish it was a bit more sophisticated at times, but I haven't found anything with such a convincing cosmic horror vibe before.

    Have you notated this out? You've got a good framework going here, for sure. I don't have a working digital piano right now which makes this tricky, but there are a handful of things about the transcription I noticed (having transcribed a good deal of this):
    -Some "sound design" elements make it a bit more difficult to pin down the actual instruments, but there are usually chords or octaves in places you have single notes (i.e. the intro drone). These are hard to pick up on at first but really serve to thicken the sound
    -After the initial high strings note, there's another note playing with the trill in the brass
    -The cello rhythm has 4 notes, as far as I can tell (rather than 3) -- the second note is repeated, i.e. 1-2-3-2, 1-2-3-2. Don't have a keyboard in front of me but I think it's something like C-D-Eb-D
    -The second trill pattern (I believe) has a horns chord behind it too. Again, tricky to hear but a thickening thing
    -The horn melody, I believe, is something like (if it's in Cm like I recall) -- C-Eb-D, C-D-B, C-Eb-D, G-F-Eb-D, F-Eb-D-Eb. Just another area with 4 notes rather than 3.

    When I get my keyboard up I'll try and get a transcription up, but you've got the essence of it. It's hard when you don't have a score in front of you (you could always email Ryan Amon and ask him, he responded to me when I asked him questions and Garry Schymann (Bioshock) has sent me sheet music before when I asked).

    I do agree that spending too much time on a piece like this probably isn't worthwhile, and IMO the second half is a little more on the "epic music" side of things and doesn't carry the same interest. As for other tracks within this score, I liked "Hail The Nightmare" as well as "The Night Unfurls" for transcribing. I think "Amygdala" is not bad too. The rest is fun but I don't think overly worth the time considering there's no score available.
     
  3. PS -- Not sure if you're interested, but I found transcribing the LOTR score to be helpful. It has some weirder, darker passages and it's actually quite manageable in terms of how things are voiced and how difficult it is to transcribe. It's a good way to delve-into-the-deep-end without drowning. Let me know if you want the score.
     
    Martin Hoffmann likes this.
  4. Thanks a lot for the in-depth reply Rohann! I'll take another look at it tomorrow and will see if I can make a couple of improvements based on your comments.
    It's only a DAW project in reaper and the midi data wouldn't be easy to export in some places because I use up to 4 different string libraries here.
     
    Rohann van Rensburg likes this.
  5. Get a room. *

    Just when I thought it was 2020, I see we are back to 1399.


    (* Please note: this is a joke. You both are really cool people, whom I respect, and I am just joking with you. Do not take this comment seriously )
     
  6. I used to transcribe that way but I've found it more beneficial to notate. You can always use your keyboard to enter in notes if you don't want to enter them in manually. It's exceedingly helpful for getting a more "zoomed out" view of what is going on, though. Will get back to you with some score hopefully soon.

    What's a new decade if you can celebrate a new century? Party like Henry IV has recently been crowned (thanks Wikipedia).

    And it's 2020 now Doug. You offended me so I'm going to start a social media campaign to have your car torched and make you lose your job* (that's how millennials do things, right?).

    (*Also a joke)
     
    Martin Hoffmann likes this.
  7. Hey Martin

    Transcription wise, to my ear you're very close (though, Rohann, clearly has better insight on that). The most obvious deviation for me is the choir at the end, but I don't know if this was by choice? Musically it's just as interesting I think.

    I can see why this might be a difficult track to transcribe, in spite of the seemingly simple chord progressions and repetition, as it takes place mostly in the low end and thus sounds quite muddy.

    I think ultimately this is a technical achievement for you, as you have succeeded in getting very close to the original sound which I'm guessing is where you've been learning a lot. Getting a mockup to sound right is a whole skill in itself so good job on that.

    I agree though, based on what I hear from the original track, that there's not much left for you to learn transcription/creative wise. I supposed if you continued working on this it would mostly be teaching you endurance and technical efficiency - both good things for someone who wants to produce good mockups of their work - but it all depends on what you want.

    Either way, thanks for sharing it.
     
  8. Daniel's reply made me think of something:

    A good way to see if your template is working is to ensure you have a mockup of something perfectly transcribed. The benefit of this is that perceived gaps in your template may actually be found in the transcription itself. Sonically, your template sounds good (better than I can probably comment on), but filling out chords like I mentioned might reveal areas that need work or may make it sound that much better to your ear.
     
    Martin Hoffmann likes this.
  9. If I ever find another one like it I'll let you know! Off the top of my head the closest that I know is the soundtrack to the game Dante's Inferno, but I think Bloodborne's soundtrack is a lot better and the game likely too.



    Yeah, I struggled with those a lot, especially since it's hard to "see" octave doubling on the spectrum analyzer. There were a couple places where I feld something was missing, but didn't know what, and in other places I had octave doublings, but one instrument wasn't loud enough to reach the desired effect.



    I don't have brass that could pull of that trill but I did have brass there in the background, just not loud enough. Boosted it a bit and layered with a different articulation. Hope that works better now.



    That cello rhythm was sooo hard for me to figure out. I had probably 4 or 5 different variants before I settled on the wrong one. Your's might even have been among them, but without accenting the right notes it sounded off to me. I tried again with your version and octave double on violas in a couple places when the horns aren't playing. Seeing them get out of the way of the horns was a nice "aha-moment" for orchestration for me.

    I checked again and I don't hear horns in there, but I thought why not use the tuba, since that's a nice low tone. This was originally one of the places where I thought "this sounds so much thicker in the original and I have no clue why". The last half of the track that I didn't fully mock up too. Just can't hear how this was done.

    I'm quite impressed that you are able to hear such small deviations from the original - I think you're right and I changed this.

    I think someone asked Penka (who orchestrated everything iirc) for scores but she wasn't allowed to give anything out. There have been a few attempts to procure the sheet music, including a university reaching out to sony, but nothing ever worked out :(.

    Yeah, I think I'll take a break from transcribing and will try either composing piano sketches next, or work on that aleatoric horror piece that I started weeks ago.





    Can't promise I'll start working on them any time soon, but I'd love to have it in my collection! I have a file called "Howard Shore - The Lord of The Rings Selections.pdf", but that looks kind of fan-made and I can't know how accurate it is.

    If you could DM me a link that would be fantastic. Thanks!



    Awww, thanks Doug!





    Lol, too real x].





    I changed the choir for this new version. It's another one of those things where I tried a ton of different approaches and settled on a "compromise". I still don't really like how it sounds and I'm not sure I got the notes right. What do you think the chords they're singing are?



    Thanks for your kind words! I definitely learned a ton from it and I have a surprising amount of patience for fiddling with the template (too much for my own good probably). Sadly I don't think it quite managed to reach my (probably wildly unrealistic) goal of making a template where I no longer feel a need to fiddle with the mix when composing. I wish I had it set up so well that I can say "That's it, I'm not getting any closer to the reftrack, everything else must be solved through orchestration now."





    This one is starting to feel like work, and I try to keep music "just a hobby". I think I need to go back to composing piano sketches now for a while, and then when I have something that's worth orchestrating, bring it over to this template and flesh it out.





    Yes, I feel like it's really holding me back that I always want to transcribe stuff that you can't get the sheet music for.



    I think at some point in the future I want to buy the whole Cinematic Studio Series when it's complete, and set up a new template based around the more classical hollywood sound. I was thinking Mike's "The Race" could be a good track because I have the stems and sheet music for it through Mike's masterclasses and when in doubt I can always ask him about details. Of course I won't ever get samples to sound as good as that live recording, but maybe I can at least get the vibe, placement and volume balance close. But that's not a project for this year I think.



    Thanks again for the helpful feedback and kind words everyone! Here is the new version:


     
    Daniel Casson likes this.
  10. My best guess is Aaug-A#aug
     
    Martin Hoffmann and Doug Gibson like this.
  11. hey Martin! good job on transcribing this. I don't know this score (I've never played blood borne) but I like it. its got some cool creepy vibes in there (and damn your brass sounds really good btw).
    dude same. most of the music I really want to transcribe is from video games and films that you can't get the score. sucks, but there's also plenty of cool stuff to find out there.
    anyways yeah I would just move on to something where you can check your work against a score. I was also doing some mock ups of video game tracks that I like,
    but it got so frustrating not being able to figure out wtf was wrong with it lol.
    its such a cool moment when you are really sure about something and then you find out you're completely wrong when you check it.
    and also kinda comforting that you can be as wrong as you want and still end up learning the "right" thing.
    hope to hear more stuff, thanks for sharing.

    hey Rohann could I get that score? I REALY want to transcribe some LOTR lol.
     
    Martin Hoffmann likes this.

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