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Bass Clarinet Concerto

Discussion in 'Critique & Feedback' started by Doug Gibson, Jul 30, 2017.

  1. #1 Doug Gibson, Jul 30, 2017
    I am writing a Bass Clarinet concerto that will be played by real orchestra. As such, the instrumentation follows what is available. I am posting my 1st draft of the final movement. It's not finished yet, so I thought I would post here for any feedback and suggestions as I am still considering changes myself. Thank you

     
    Alexander Schiborr and Noam Levy like this.
  2. #2 Brian Bunker, Jul 30, 2017
    Nice work - lots of control of thematic fragmentation, control of the orchestral balance to not overpower the soloist, and a generally imaginative and playful feel!

    I'm guessing you've heard the last movement of the Barber Violin Concerto, right? I'm thinking of that one for two reasons: because of formal construction (it's a similarly catch-as-you-can form of fragmented materials rather than a rondo) and because of the length (i.e., short!!). The two are connected of course - because the typical rondo form bulks out the length of a piece in the repeats of the returning theme, right? That level of fragmentation, and the lack of a real, 'weighty' A or B theme, means that there's only so much material that can be churned out - just ask Webern, right?!? Because once you've gone through the process you set out, what's left to do but end?

    That's the thing I'd consider then; without hearing the first and second movements, I'd worry that this third movement won't have enough weight to balance - and this is the same complaint that's always been levelled against the Barber.

    I was impressed that you corralled those fragments into an ending, although it did feel a bit flippant considering the thrust of the movement overall - the ending is the moment when there is the greatest repetition, which cuts into the power of the actual final moment. I'd probably recommend trying out an opposite tack; your fragments have been running wild for the whole movement, so roping them in REDUCES the intensity instead of building them up - let them get a bit wilder and further out before slamming them home and I think it'll give away less of the power of the very last moments. And of course, the more power in the closing - the more soloists who'll want a chance to wow a crowd with that power!

    It's really good stuff though - are the first two movements up anywhere? (incidentally, if you're working from the last movement 'back' - take extra care to not dictate the length of the other movements by a shorter closing movement!!!)
     
  3. #3 Doug Gibson, Aug 1, 2017
    Hello Brian ! Thank you very much for taking the time to listen,and you very thoughtful comments. You made a number of excellent points.
    I am still revising, refining so very open to making changes, and I will experiment with the ending. A few ideas are going through my mind already.
    Your comments were very clear.

    So: Thank you !!!

    Well, other way around. I went in order - 1,2,3. I decided to put the cadenza between mov. 2 and 3. The "Shosty" Cello concerto does this, and I always liked that over the first movement. Basically I wrote piano reduction first...... and am now orchestrating and revising.

    Regarding time...... I had to make that movement that length as I have a 20 minute max cap, and mov. 1 and 2 pushed it over. I can plead with the orchestra and "cook the books" a little. I think I will be fine. It comes in about 22-23 min now.

    If you would like to hear mov 1. I will post below. However it is not done, and there are some serious "holes" in the orchestration as I am still working on it. I don't mind however. The ending is still piano reduction only so I am going to leave off the last 45 measures. In a way it's nice to post un-finished work as I very open to suggestions.



    I hope you don't mind, it is only a Sibelius/ Noteperformer playback.
     
  4. #4 Doug Gibson, Sep 30, 2017
    @BrianBunker

    Thanks for your feedback on this piece. I have received back the recording from the studio session. This is still "Un-mixed" version.
    Everything is dry, but I slapped on some verb..... so it should sound better after the mixing session. Just wanted to post it anyway

     
    Markus Kohlprath likes this.
  5. #5 Doug Gibson, Oct 1, 2017
    Mov. 2 pre-mixed version.

    Any love, or is this the Puerto Rico of RB ?

     
    Paul T McGraw likes this.
  6. #6 Brian Bunker, Oct 1, 2017
    Sorry, Doug!

    Just got in - it's been a busy day; Heck, it's been a monumental week/month to be honest. I'm looking forward to checking these out tomorrow!
     
  7. #7 Doug Gibson, Oct 1, 2017
    Hi Brian

    Oops !! I was not referring to you at all in my last post. That was just a silly joke to rib the RB community. You have already been very gracious.
    Listen whenever it suits you. By all means put important things first, and don't worry about "having" to comment.

    I hope it did not come across that way. I was just jivin the site.
     
  8. #8 Aaron Venture, Oct 1, 2017
    Wait, you call your composition "Bass Clarinet Concerto", don't write in a taiko ensemble with FFF horns and cymbal crashes and expect attention?

    My ill-attempt-at-humor aside, this is so cool. I love the mystery in your writing, especially in strings. Also, I'm hearing some Bass Clarinet sounds for the first time (which in turn tells me I should study more). I've listened to it a few times today already and man, that 1:27 (the first post, not Mov2) catches be every time :D Please do post the full Concerto once it's mixed (if that's you want to do).

    Where was this recorded?
     
    Doug Gibson likes this.
  9. #9 Brian Bunker, Oct 1, 2017
    Hey, Doug!

    Ha...didn't mean to call you out for calling the group out, if that makes sense. Sometimes I like to post to remind myself to get on here when I have free time - like this morning!

    I thought that third movement is sounding pretty fantastic now. I still am not totally in love with that ending, but I think that has more to do with the way it changes gears a little abruptly; it still feels like the piece is moving along, and then the clarinet line basically says "OK - we're done here" and we know that we're ending, and - that's that! But, that's just a little stutter in what's otherwise a very fine piece - whatever changes you've made in it since the last time I listened to it were 100% for the better.

    The second movement works very well, too. It loses a bit of focus and energy a few times with some literal repeats (or - what sound like literal repeats, anyway) of some orchestration details that could have been varied - to my taste, anyway. There's so much interest and variety in there, that the moments where the interest flags a bit stand out for me.

    All together though - man, this is coming together very nicely indeed. Any details on the eventual performance you can share yet?
     
  10. #10 Alexander Schiborr, Oct 1, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2017
    Nice take on this kind of music. I am not sure where I can shed light on an academic standpoint here, but it feels fresh to my ears. Is that a kind of impressionism mixed with serial harmonic touch? I am not really sure where you went for, but I like it!
     
  11. #11 Doug Gibson, Oct 2, 2017

    I enjoyed the humor. It was recorded in Bratislava.

    Re: 1:27 low stuff. Bass Clarinet can really get some did-ger-ry-do (spell check is fucking with me ! Every time I spell it dodger comes up)
    type sounds. No need to listen to the piece, but click at 3:00 and you'll hear it. This recording is from a live performance at Juilliard.

     
  12. #12 Doug Gibson, Oct 2, 2017

    Thanks for listening and you comments. Some times hindsight is 20/20. First concerto I have every composed, and I think one just needs to write a concerto.... to learn how to write a concerto. Also, not being a Bass Clarinet player..... I found imagining what it technically can and cannot do near impossible. So I think a lot of my attention was on that, and also to not have it be over-whelmed by the orchestra.

    The other thing that was on my mind..... it was meant to be a 15-18 minute piece. It had already expanded to 20-ish before the cadenza, so I was
    very much in a "get me the fuck out of here" mindset for the last movement.

    That's the "barter" aspect of writing. This whole thing had to be recorded in a single 3 hour call. When you add in breaks...... that's about 2:35" to get the whole thing down. We got it ! So at the very least hitting those targets is a nice feeling. Nothing worse than a shitty recording session.
     
    Paul T McGraw likes this.
  13. #13 Doug Gibson, Oct 2, 2017
    Oh God, don't answer in a academic way..... that would suck. If anything I value the feedback of people who do not listen to "concert music" even more.

    You know the line you said "I am not really sure where you went for, but I like it!" that like an ideal goal for my process.

    "I am not really sure what I went for, but I like it !"

    Thanks

    PS. My comments on your epic piece is coming ! I have not forgotten, I just want to do so properly.
     
  14. #14 Aaron Venture, Oct 2, 2017
    Nice, thanks for the info. And damn, that piece.
     
  15. #15 Paul T McGraw, Oct 24, 2017
    @Doug Gibson this piece is terrific. I did not hear it as atonal (or serial or quartal) but as CPE harmony with a twist. Please correct me if I am wrong. I think this piece has much in common with the early Stravinsky idiom (Rite, Firebird) and I mean that in a good way. Those were his best works IMHO. I am certain that any Bass Clarinet player would be ecstatic to play this piece. Congratulations!
     
  16. #16 Doug Gibson, Oct 24, 2017
    Hi Paul. Thank you very much for taking the time to listen, and your kind words ! I'll post the whole thing when I get the mixed version. The first movement is my personal fav.

    Sure, I love the early 20th century stuff you mentioned. I just try and write something I would want to hear if I was in the audience.
     
  17. #17 Doug Gibson, Nov 22, 2017
    Ok..... the whole thing. For those brave enough to endure.

     
  18. #18 Doug Gibson, Dec 7, 2017
    OK...... I am sure if you take out a Websters Dictionary and look up the definition of "low-bar" it would be this quote, but here goes anyway.

    I think this is the best piece I wrote this year. I actually feel most proud of writing this concerto because it was my first concerto, Bass Clarinet is
    not something I play and knew inside/out before embarking, and somehow I wrote in a style that feels like an extension of my style, but a total departure from
    most of my other works. All good things.

     
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