Hans Zimmer's Dunkirk Score

I've yet to watch Tombstone, but that score is one of my favorite albums to listen to. Having listened to it as many times as I did, I feel like I've already watched the movie. I'll get to it at some point. Off the top of my head, I also remember enjoying Trevor Morris' "Michiel De Ruyter" score before ever seeing the film, and really enjoying the movie subsequently even though I felt like I'd already watched it. The last piece / last scene is incredibly moving and powerful.

On the note of Dunkirk, didn't Nolan say that there's not gonna be as much dialogue and that he took inspiration in silent movies? I'm expecting music to take the main stage along the picture, and not just sit in background. Here's to the rest of the album holding up, or at least in the context of the picture.

 

I generally listen to more scores than I do watch films or play games (especially this), and I find that this certainly tends to be the case. Mind you I do find sound design scores to be highly appropriate in many contexts, but even the most abstract ones tend to work as a standalone piece. Far too many big budget scores these days are "sound design" in an uninteresting way that's not necessary for the film.

 

Stanley Kubrick at so point in his career started to almost exclusively use masterpieces oder classical music in his films. In his films this strategy works for me. Film composers most of the time have to run a race against time and it is VERY rare that this leads to a masterpiece. Not only because of the time contraint, but also because masterpieces are generally written rarely by only a few people in each century. IMO only the Hitchcock Herrmann duo was able to produce true art in that sense ... maybe the Spielberg - Williams duo as well, but IMO less so.

 

IMO the most interesting aspect of Zimmer's recent scores is how he's embraced the metronomic feeling of modern film scores where everything is to a very strict click... he has brought the click forward and made it the centerpiece of his music in many cues. HZ has always been forward thinking, the people who are stuck are those of us who are still trying to write "emotional" music that will end up being recorded against a tyrannical click because it has to line up with prerecs.

 

I watched Dunkirk last night, and was excited to see if the score lived up to all the hype. There are several aspects of it that I found interesting, namely (as mentioned above) that Zimmer does bring the click to the forefront in a few cues in a way that really supports what is happening in the scene. There were also a handful of moments where his score stirred up some deep emotions inside me as I watched the film. However, despite all this, I wasn't really a fan of the score.

I could not help but think about Verta's description of how film scoring has changed over time and the great divide between building music that works together over the course of the entire film versus cues that sound great on their own, yet together don't really tell a cohesive story. Obviously this is my opinion, and I'm sure others feel differently about it, but when I left the theatre I had no memorable melody to hum and didn't feel that the harmony was developed to its potential. I would have loved to see what a different composer could have come up with for this film.

I did enjoy the movie, but the score was extremely hyped with so much constant tension from a sound design perspective that I became desensitized to it, and it lost its effect. I like a lot of Zimmer's work, but I wasn't impressed with Dunkirk's score. This just isn't something I would ever want to listen to on its own.

I have been spoiled by the beautiful melodies and harmonic development of so many amazing composers from the past that I am probably biased toward this type of sound in a film score, and while I do think the predominately sound-design-based scores do have their place, listening to Dunkirk's score represents a great example of how I've interpreted Verta's thoughts about changes in the industry. I look forward to hearing others' comments about this score!

 

I'm starting to feel this way about a lot of modern scores. Variety and contrast are such important, oft overlooked components, and as much as I love much of Zimmer's work, I'm getting rather tired of the "epic sound design" vibe.

 

While I think this works great for some flavours, playing strictly to a click can feel overly sterile for the more "emotional" (expressive?) passages. I.e. rhythm guitar in a rock song not to a click feels "loose", whereas an improvised solo needs a degree of flexibility in playing with the rhythm to stay interesting and avoid sterility. Ditto with certain quartet or classical passages and the like.

 

I thought the music killed the film. Not that it was Hans' fault in the slightest, judging by everything I've read. But all of the decisions made lead to the music being what it was, and it killed the film for me.

First things first: all of Nolan's statements about this being a 'thriller' or 'suspense' film or any of the things to lessen the historical nature of the stuff that happens on screen are nonsense. Because it isn't SHOT that way. And so then presumably he went to Hans, worried that it would be too 'freighted with emotion' because it is, and because he SHOT it that way, and told him to do what he could. And Hans pulled out his drawer of Dark Knight pulses and said "I can do that."

The film reminded me of the Brad Pitt WW2 Tank film 'Fury' - except it was much better than that film. But the music had the same job.

And since it seems like a recurring thread, I can imagine similar conversations and thinking processes between the two: the film has to NOT be a sentimental look at a historical point, so they want timelessness. And so they go to synthetic elements, which (this is where I'm going to get into trouble) aren't so much timeless as outside of, discrete from, time. Not the same thing. Blade Runner isn't Timeless - it's just in another time, if that makes sense. I know I'm kind of equating synths themselves with sound design - which isn't quite the same thing, of course. But they work the same way. Future out of time, Past out of time. Two directions on the same axis.

Same thing here: (SPOILER ALERT) you've got shots that clearly are meant to make the film ABOUT something (big overheads to place it in perspective, the guy looking off into the distance is totally a 'looking forward' shot) but the directors want to rein in the nostalgia to play it cool. They equate 'real, gritty experience' with sterility.

I don't think it's really a sound design versus traditional score versus synthetic versus anything issue: it's a film trying not to be itself.

Actually - I stand corrected: the music didn't kill the film. The director killed the film through music. Because I could imagine what this film would be with a more appropriate score, and it would be fantastic.

My two cents, anyway. Go ahead, boys - get the firing squad out. Ready? Aim.....

 

Really interesting thoughts. I haven't seen the film myself but I'll be pondering this a while.

I think minimalism often gets bad press in regard to being repetitive, unmemorable and avoiding development, but I think good minimalism can easily incorporate subtle development.

 

Oh that's completely fair -- I was thinking more generally, not relating to this movie.

 

If you had to pick a temp score what would you rather hear? I think it worked great to create a constant tension and amplify the immersion. I personally can't see a melodic score working as well to that effect. I thought the sound design aesthetic of the score was fantastic. I can hear a lot to appreciate there aside from the sparse harmonies. I don't think it's fair to hear a synth pulse and scream DARK KNIGHT.

 

First of all - why are the two choices 'sound design' or 'melodic?' I don't have to score everything as if I were re-writing Tchaik 6. What about Rite of Spring? It's neither Sound Design nor Melodic. What is it? I'd say just: good writing. So that's what I'd go for: a 'good writing' score.

The thing about Dunkirk is that there are perfectly good examples of how people have done the same kind of scene placed at the same point in time. Tell you what: call up this Walton cue at about 2:26, and tell me it wouldn't have been better for that film. The tone isn't perfect, and Walton's sparing with the percussion, but I'd take that over Supermarine any day of any week of any year of any point from now until eternity for Dunkirk.

 

Thanks for the example. I would have laughed and left the theatre if that was the score. Feels cheeky and obvious, like a Charlie Chaplin film. I like the subtlety of Zimmer's work. The simplicity, and the fact that it's not begging for your attention creates a more visceral experience for me. Made the story feel more sparse and psychological at points, which I really enjoy.