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Temporal Displacement Question

Discussion in 'Composition 4' started by Javier Ramis, Mar 3, 2019.

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  1. #1 Javier Ramis, Mar 3, 2019
    Is this (from bars 9 to 17, approximately) Bill Evans' "Spartacus Love Theme" an example of temporal displacement?



    It took me 30 minutes to transcribe 16 bars! Probably 10 of those minutes chewing bar 10 (still has me scratching my head with the thin line I am finding sometimes between polychord and an extended chord). Completely worth the time invested on it, though.
     
    David Healey likes this.
  2. #2 Doug Gibson, Mar 3, 2019
    A very interesting question. Is this a topic in Comp 4 ? I look forward to watching it ....soon !

    If this is from Comp 4 then I am ignorant to the context with which it was talked about specifically.

    I suspect it was used like the opening of Beethoven 5. We can't really hear the down beat rest, so the first note feels like a down
    beat, but it's an up beat. It's a wonderful device. I'll attach below a cool example by Ravel. Just listen to the first 30 seconds and
    then see if you can guess the notation.

    With regards to the opening of this Bill Evans piece:

    @Mike Verta, and @Thomas Bryla have much greater knowledge of Jazz piano than I do. I hope they can give their opinion.

    With that disclaimer ...... I'll take a guess and give you my first impression.

    I will say NO. To my mind nothing in the first 20 measures really have a temporal displacement.
    (later on..... I don't know.... it's Bill Evans so it's certainly probable. I just did not listen beyond the opening)

    Why ? Because what I am reading in the transcription above does not match how I experience the music.

    The music is not "against" anything. (Like a hemiola). It all feels like 3/4.

    Often when transcribing people will "Round-off" certain rhythmic values. It's simply easier to read.

    What it looks like, (and I have done this before too), is this person has put it into their DAW, and instead of any kind of rubato
    we are seeing a "Grid" approach.

    I'm not saying it's not accurate, but that it is way more complex looking than how I hear it.

    You would most likely get the exact same sound result by having the first three measures as dotted quarter notes, and then putting a "poco accel" above measure 2.

    Measures 7 and 8 look like non-sense to me. It looks "computer-ized". There is nothing to make me feel 7/8.

    My vote would be NO.


     
    Rohann van Rensburg likes this.
  3. #3 Thomas Bryla, Mar 3, 2019
    Me neither. And neither the rest of the piece.
    Yup!

    I had this exact same thought when seeing the transcription
    Mine too :)
     
    Rohann van Rensburg likes this.
  4. #4 Mike Verta, Mar 3, 2019
    The piece is in 3/4. The transcription would've been better if it'd been done by a musician.

    No, this isn't the temporal displacement we talk about in Comp 4, but it is almost the inverse of it. Generally the displacement effect we capitalize on is when the melody remains consistent and, having been established, leads the audience to an expectation, which we then redefine with temporally-displaced, new chords underneath. This might be considered first-order displacement. Second-order displacement might be melody, suddenly redefined by new underlying chords, which are then redefined by alternate bass notes. Staggering them in time draws out the experience - it's almost like having an intensity/focus dial on the music. If we present a reharmonization, complete with new chords and bass notes all at once, that's fine, but temporal displacement gives us a chance to ease a listener into the change. It is also a way of more gently serving up more complex ideas. Conversely, it can be used to double the frequency of modulations, and increase complexity in a way that's still palatable.
     
  5. #5 Javier Ramis, Mar 4, 2019
    Thank you all for your replies and direction. Let's see if I understand the concept a bit better now with the example below (terrible melody but keeping it really simple for my own clarity). Is this closer to an example of what you are describing or am I going in the wrong direction?

    [​IMG]
    Sound:
    https://bit.ly/2BYnqzJ

    Mil Gracias,

    JR
     
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