24 hours

Whoa !!!

I don't really know what to tell you that would not sound mean. I do try and post helpful points here.
We don't know each other, so hopefully this does not come across as too discouraging.

I am kind of dumbfounded as in both pieces you have really strong aspects of the composition/production
and then, particularly this one, some "holy shit, what the fuck is that" moments.

This style, while not my expertise, really is about 90% flawless production. 90% of your chances will be on the surface aspect of the composition.

That lead melody line..... when I first heard it.... I recalled one time getting so angry at an oboe player I wanted to shove the Oboe up his ass.
Perhaps this happened and then you had him play ? The more I listened to that lead line, I felt as though a Swan was getting raped...... slowly.

It really is that bad. Don't use that sample ever again.

It kinda of turns into satire later. Like 1:44 .... we find out it was a muted trumpet and right at 1:44 there is his squawk. It takes on a "shreds" from youtube vibe
from there.

Truly, I don't intended to come around here and tell people very negative things. It's just...... you know..... did you hear about that guy in Texas who was arrested for having sex with chain link fence ? You can kind of image the scenario right...... drunk as hell... walking home..... the triangle of the fence sparks the image of a vagina in his head........ I feel like the guy going "A dude...... that's a fence"

I would highly recommend paying someone and taking some lesson on music recording and production.

Please do keep posting, and keep at it. I'm just going to call a spade (a fence) a spade (a fence).

We all know how hard music composition is, and just keep on learning everyday.

 

A very admirable reply. I've had worse said about my music. Grit ... is something we all need. Also, know that if my comments don't help you.... disregard them. I am a bit of an asshole, and plenty of people here can back that assertion up. Also, polarizing music can be a big hit somewhere else. When I was growing up the nuns at my school hated Guns n Roses.....so...... I became a huge fan. Epic, is not a genre I am too found of regardless of who is writing it.

Of course. You certainly deserve that. I'll do my best to outline my opinions, and of course they are just that: My opinion. Nothing more.

Yes. I know, and knew what it was.

First, let's just think about the instrument choice, and not the specific recording you posted. This way we don't have to debate EQ or make the comment seem too personal.

For me it's an odd choice, especially - and this is crucial -- to the point of putting the Horn and trombones so far in the background.
It seems like this melody just cries out for the Horn. It is just such a, almost pavlov response now, that horn will carry melodies like this. It is in the temp you posted too. That 6 - 8 horn unison, loud as fuck sound. Things like 2001, or the original star trek.

Technically, you begin in the trumpet's mid-range and defend into the start of the lower range. Pitch can actually get a bit wonky in the trumpets lower range, and with the mute....actually gets a timbre similar to Oboe/Cor English

As a call and response between Horn/ trumpet is of course like the original theme, so that could work. It's a little 60's/70's-ish but I like it.

Of course the brief was not to write Star trek. Still that was the temp, and request of you, so the instrumentation issues are worth thinking about.

I would just ask you... to ask yourself if you listen to this sample created version of Star Trek theme, does it sound more epic, or more impressive ?
If so why ?

Or watch a real orchestra play for ideas on orchestration. Here are two versions.

Basically, when I think of things like solo trumpet (and in the register you wrote) as the lead throughout it's often a more mellow. (like the main theme to Chinatown, or Brother )

Sure. I have put clips of the spots I am talking about. For me, that F piano/trumpet unison just sticks out like crazy. I repeat it, just for clarity.

Also, I don't really know what to call this, it sounds like Aliens are saying "thank you". Is this a theremin reference ? No.....
I think you went for recreating some of the vocal aspects of the Star trek (aside from just the choir) and it just does not work for me.



Please know, I think you have a lot of talent and think a lot of what you write sounds really, really good. The background music leading up to the F squawk sounds great.

I am more blunt towards you because I really think you have a lot of potential for working as a in-demand professional media music composer.
If I did not, I would not even bother to write any comments.

I don't understand why some things are so off. Well I do.... but rather encouraging you to be more of a perfectionist with your music.
I believe with the right mind set these are things you can catch for yourself. Tell your friends to fuck off, and work harder.
I also know how competitive and demanding the field is. Raise the bar for yourself. You can do it. My opinion is you still have a "pay-your dues"
period. Swords are forged in fire.

These are just my opinions. I could be wrong about everything. Not the first or last time.

I wish you the best

 

As you should be. You have already accomplished so much as a bass player. There is nothing to feel bad about.
You are just moving into another domain. Each domain, like a genre has it's own ...whats the word. Not rules.... maybe accents, as in
this person has a southern accent, or a British accent etc.

Also I have had teachers give me their feedback on my work and I too could not hear what they were saying ......and then 6 months later ...light bulb.

So either some things I mentioned will click later..... or not. No big deal. These are just my opinions and every composer has to stand on ones own legs.
There are many highly successful film composers whose work I hear and have no reaction to. Their music just does not emotionally affect me in any way at all.
I can't even write bad comments about them as I am hear it an feel nothing.

So..... my comments are not an indication of future success for anyone.

Just to clarify 2.5 points from your post, then bid adieu.

1. The horns simply have a "rounder" and and "fuller" sound. Look at the bells of each and it's obvious why.
From Star trek to Wagner, Marvel stuff.... right or wrong I still think the audience has a pavlov response now to the horns in this way.

2. It's this. Just my 2 cents. The timing sounds off. Most likely due to the fact one is a sustaining instrument and the other a percussion.
Even if they are quantized, the vocal sound feels late and just really calls my attention to it straight away. I bet if you extended the duration of the vocal this
would be eased.




.5: Schenkerian would never look at this... Often people joke 3-2-1 who are not fans of the theory.

I only bring it up as Schenkerian analysis was by far the most useful theory I have ever studied. Bar none.

Gotta run !

 

Hi Ben
I see you and Doug hammering out the technical on what you wrote. There is no one better to help you see your own piece and it's potential in a different light.

My problem with your piece is it seems too far off from what the client has requested. Trust me, there is reason none of my pieces have ever been picked up for anything. Simply put, "you've got to give the people.......give the people what they want".

Your client here is clearly asking for the commercial, borderline cliche, gulp...gasp......dare I say it....."EPIC" (oh, I just threw up in my mouth a little) trailer sound. The usual suspects of Two Steps from Hell and AudioMachine come to mind. Your piece doesn't completely grab that trailer vibe so you have already put yourself at a disadvantage to getting the job.

The good news is this type of production has a very simple structure to it. Take a look at the Star Trek - The Reboot trailer. There is a basic structure readily available. The editing of the cue is obviously choppy to match the video but when you listen to enough of this types of tracks you hear it:

Intro - simple motif statement - B section - motif restatement with vertical development (here the Hans Zimmer Drums and choir counter line) - Climax

That's the simplified version. There's usually a dead pause with a synth bass drop in there somewhere for good measure.

Your piece starts out promising. Your ostinato @ 0:12 is a bit challenging (not immediately accessible) but it could work if you hit the vibe right with you main motif. That's where the choice of muted trumpet becomes questionable as Doug has articulated. From there it deviates too far from the requested material.

Make no mistake, you can do trailers with unique orchestration but If you want to get that job, and a commercial trailer like this is referenced, stick to the basics:

- Break out Albion, or Metropolis Ark, or Epic Cinematic Sampling's Horns of Oblivion Library of Epicness (I made that last one up)
- Put the melody in the "38 player French Horn patch", trombones holding down the chords, with low strings on the ostinato.
- Have some type of synth drone with strings for your B section.
- Restate the melody with Trumpets and Trombones and use high strings or horns or tikos (or all of the above) for vertical development.
- Done

It's not ground breaking but it will get you the job.

Best of luck.

 

Funny, but probably very true.

 

This needs to happen !

 

Yup
Before I decided to try and write "real music" , I though I wanted to write "trailer music". Transitioning from the hip-hop/rap/r&b world it seemed like the natural move. If I can drag my ass out of bed in the morning before the kids wake up, I'll see if I can slap a few bars down just to see if I still have it.

 

Here you go Ben. It's a mess conceptually with sloppy midi and a mushy mix but you get the idea. I literally did this while doing my laundry this morning. Listening to it now reminded me why I stopped using Spitfire Brass. That trumpet patch is way out of tune.

Doing trailer stuff once in a while is fun. Do it too much and it will crush your soul .