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Forget "Trump" - this is unprecedented...

Discussion in 'The RedBanned Bar & Grill' started by Mike Verta, Jul 2, 2017.

  1. #1 Mike Verta, Jul 2, 2017
    Set all the "Trump" stuff aside and focus for a second on one of the most amazing things to come of this:

    The President of the United States now talks directly and without filter to every single citizen of the country (and most of the world.) The real guy; not a press department; not a bot; not a crafted message. Dude on the toilet at 3am.

    This has never even been possible, technically, before, and in a world of meticulously crafted messaging (read: bullshit), it's stunning. I mean, even if it's a total dumpster fire by a cartoon trainwreck of a guy, it's just about the best precedent in the world to set. I want all future Presidents to do this. Amend the Constitution so they're not allowed to have anybody script their tweets, I say.

    The media, used to controlling the narrative, hates it of course. It's their job to filter information so it suits their agendas and this just throws a wrench in their whole thing. By wrench, of course, I mean truth. Like them or hate them, the President's tweets are the truth - the truth about who he is, what his opinions are. They're raw and real. That's why the media hates it. The media hates the actual truth; they prefer their truth.

    I actually hate Twitter; I almost never use it. But I like shit that's real so I can really decide what to do with it .

    Anyway, here's to truth, including the harsh version of it.
     
    Andre Lefebvre, Mike Worth and Roger L Bates like this.
  2. #2 Jason Tackaberry, Jul 2, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2017
    Does the media really hate it? Why do you think that? It seems to me that they're lapping it up. After all, what press outlet wouldn't want a train wreck to cover every day.

    I'm not entirely sure the unfiltered message from Trump is any less bullshit than what preceded him. Most of the time it's barely coherent. :)

    I will grant you that it does appear to be genuinely from the brain of POTUS.
     
    Rick Hill likes this.
  3. #3 Mike Verta, Jul 2, 2017
    Oh, I'd definitely called the media "pissed" at this point, as an understatement. But yeah, the direct-link/raw thing, to me, is... well that's just up my alley. And the world could really do with less crafted manipulation. At least we know what we're really getting.
     
    Andre Lefebvre likes this.
  4. #4 Michael Antrum, Jul 2, 2017
    In the UK I don't think the media have very much idea how they have devalued themselves over the last few years. It has become clear that they very much enjoy the power they think they have, and in particular the BBC (a state funded broadcaster that is by law supposed to be impartial), has been very selective in its reporting. Interviews have turned into bad natured hectoring, good manners have been replaced with grandstanding and outright rudeness and hostility. Any pretence at even handedness has evaporated.

    I think some of the more astute journalists are waking up to the fact that they are no longer trusted or respected - and I think it terrifies them. They will certainly reap what they sow.
     
    Roger L Bates likes this.
  5. #5 Adam Alake, Jul 3, 2017
    I was actually thinking the same thing a few days ago. What a time to be alive.
     
  6. #6 Doug Gibson, Jul 5, 2017
    Ahh !!! It's your forum so I'll (try) and be respectful. I get the sentiment, but really Trump's tweets is just a step above "Dick pics".
    "Look, I got nothing to hide." Sorry, I tried .... and that really is my best. I'll keep clear of the Grill, and just read the music stuff.

    The problem with Trump and his tweets is he hides behind the power of the office. Anyone else could/would have been sued for libel. Personally I think
    it is odd that we literally now have someone above the law. If I went over to vi-control and posted "Just found out failing Mike Verta set up new web site for sharing child porn..... sad !" ... you would rightfully tell me to take it down, or sue me. However he has the power of his office to get away with this.

    In my opinion this is not authenticity but hypocrisy at it's highest. ...... alright I'll stop !!
     
    Paul Shapiro and Mike Verta like this.
  7. #7 Mike Verta, Jul 5, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2017
    This is at least one place you can say whatever you want. All I ever ask is that people make an argument and not just hurl shit. But even then I'd rather just let the thing sort itself out. But I'm not real big on fear. Say what you want to say. Shit, no shortage of people love/hate Trump so how can we as artists not be inspired by the raw material of it? It is our job to process, weigh in, and hold this stuff up!

    Plus, and I'm saying this on the 4th of July, we really pay a lot of lip service to our freedoms of expression in this country. But I notice around me an awful lot of intolerance and lack of willingness to handle other people's opinions and I hate that. And this latest trick where people get around listening to things they don't agree with by simply labeling them and the people saying them as hateful in order to justify intolerance strikes me as tragically smarmy. Personally I'll listen to anything and anyone if they can defend it; explain it; then I got all the patience in the world for their position. But when somebody is just parroting things they heard other people say on the magic glowing rectangle and they can't actually intellectually defend it? That drives me nuts.
     
  8. #8 Doug Gibson, Jul 5, 2017
    I can totally dig what you are saying Mike. Thanks too for the much better vibes already here. I too don't expect people to "think" like me, only that
    they do "think".

    I have a hypothesis about the "magic glowing rectangle" and it is this: (*** You (kind of) have to be older to fully get my point. I view the current divide like the grand canyon - a slow steady erosion)

    The hypothesis is that one significant timeline event in changing the US. News paradigm was the first gulf war. (Desert Shield, Desert Storm)
    I say this as this made the 24 hour news cycle boom into what we have today. "Back in my day" TV stations would sign off at night. No internet was around. Some stations late night would have Anthony Robins selling motivation, or another would make something called "Blue-blockers" (no relation to blue balls) seem like the coolest shit ever.

    Basically the ratings went through the roof, and boom 24 hour cable news was now full on. They had underestimated how much could be made.
    This is also the same period in which Rush Limbaugh and talk radio exploded. (push back against the protesters of the war).
    Hell, even "Sports center" went from being a single show to the whole fucking thing. A vacuum was created. If 24 hours worth of news was not there, then get someone on entertaining you with their opinions on the news. (I am leaving out the next Tsunami of the internet)

    Think about how healthy that actually is to have 8 hours of rest. One thing I personally lament is "we", as a culture, don't value solitude. Real solitude, not chillin by ourselves on the internet. Since it is the 4th of July, lets remember too how much Thomas Jefferson, and other "founding fathers" loved spending time alone with books, pursuing knowledge, and rigorously reflecting on ideas.

    There is simply too much input, which is why so many people are full of shit. Somehow a philosophical view on how to create government policy became an identity. Liberalism and Conservatism was never meant to be a T-shirt you could personally identify yourself with.
    To understand how weird it is, imagine someone arguing " Well I am a Volcker Rule guy so I believe in XYZ". WTF ?

    I've run out of steam to write more. I think the gist of one of your points is really wise: we should all listen and reflect more.....and sometimes that listening has to be our own Socratic meditation on what is meaningful for our own life.
    (with no concern about where your conclusions land on the political spectrum. Just they are authentic to you, and provide some kind of compass for the choices you make)
     
    Mike Worth likes this.
  9. #9 Mike Verta, Jul 6, 2017
    Well said all around. Silence is golden. A few months ago I dumped all my social media. The ROI is abysmal. And my last-ever Facebook post explained it: my 6-year-old asked me why I was always on my phone. He asked this despite the fact that, comparatively speaking, I'm almost never on my phone. I realized my perspective was warped even despite my conscious intention for it not to be. Anyway, that was that. Gotta lead first by example.
     
  10. #10 Paul Shapiro, Jul 6, 2017
    Blimey now there's a thought: what might a Trump-inspired composition sound like? I suspect we'd have a few very, very different interpretations. The Sad, No Fair Concerto, for Four Little Hands...
     
  11. #11 Rick Hill, Jul 7, 2017
    I agree with you Mike, that there is a pile of crap that gets dished out to us through the filter of organisations whose sole purpose is to talk lots and say nothing. That really boils my piss.

    However, in this particular case Tack has it nailed as well. This strikes me as an unhappy confluence of the two. A fantastic vehicle being controlled by someone who appears unable or incapable of wielding it appropriately or effectively.

    So sad. :p
     
  12. #12 Mike Verta, Jul 7, 2017
    It's not the connection that's impressive, it's the truth that's impressive. Presidents have "tweeted" before - it's just carefully scripted bullshit and not in any way the President. This is the actual President, and probably the only guy in history who would reveal himself so brazenly, if without awareness of it or for the worst reasons. The ideal thing would be to have a President who uses the medium not "more effectively," but whose content was inherently more substantive. But we don't have Presidents like that; we elect World Heavyweight Champion Bullshit Artists, whose White House victories are a testament to just how brazenly they can promise the world, while having no actual goal in mind other than furthering their career in politics. Trump is not, nor ever will be, a career politician (safe bet, no?), and our political landscape is unified in making that clear. So it's the catch-22: a non-career-scumbag is EXACTLY the kind of guy the people would love to represent them, but we don't elect non-career-politicians. At least, we didn't. We have, now, and I personally hope that Trump's greatest accomplishment will have been to be a wrecking ball to the closed order of the system, paving the way for somebody more defensible, but also outside the system. Say what you will, we're never going back to the way it was, and that's got to be a good thing. Like leveling a corrupt city in order to make way for re-gentrification: ain't going to be pretty, but in the long haul, may allow for a fresh start.
     
    Andre Lefebvre likes this.
  13. #13 Rick Hill, Jul 7, 2017
    Sure. Substantive yes. That's what I was trying to get at with "effective". And you know better than any that there's no going back to the way it was (exibit A m'lud; Redbanned). Forward to...the future!
     
  14. #14 Jason Tackaberry, Jul 7, 2017
    I'm far more skeptical about this. I personally think things post-Trump will look more similar to pre-Trump than they are different. Let's bump this thread again in 4 years and see how things look. :)
     
    Rick Hill likes this.
  15. #15 Andre Lefebvre, Jul 7, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2017
    For one thing: Trump has always used Twitter the same way. Bigly. He is the brand. I think the power of America's political machine - and its weakness sometimes too - is that no matter who is president, the government keeps puttering.

    I watch with amazement - and sometimes befuddled amusement - the mental and emotional collapse of a swathe of the media and intellectual elite who are used to follow a script, as they have no grid for this guy.

    The grid is - being yourself, despite the public lynching an conspiracies. Being liked is not everything, in fact it can be an addiction, and makes for pretty weak leaders. Weak leaders are more easily manipulated.
     
  16. #16 Doug Gibson, Jul 9, 2017
    No one has ever been more concerned about being liked than Trump. I met him once in 2009.

    There is just such a fundamental gap between those who support him and those who don't.
    I often understand, and even agree with the gist of what Trump supporters view is the big problem. The leap to Trump being any kind of solution in any way, leaves me dumbfounded.

    Let me use an analogy to explain my experience.

    Picture in your mind waiting either at the DMV or with the TSA at the airport. While once in awhile people may have decent experiences, overall they are total pieces of shit. I'll pick TSA

    To my ears, with Trump supporters, I hear something akin to the following:

    (the problem)

    TSA are bullshit. Watching them work is like a total dumpster fire by a cartoon train wreck. They get off on the power of making you wait. It's the 5th largest airport in the world and you have two metal detectors open.... get some more metal detectors ! 2 hours to pass through security is bullshit. Hire people who are smart, not checking their phones while pretending to work, and actually have some skill at what they do. They keep us safe by strip searching grandmas ? How brazenly can they promise to keep airlines safe, while having no actual goal in mind other than furthering their bureaucratic bullshit jobs, because they know they could never get work anywhere else..

    (.... the solution)

    That's why when I travel I always bring a hammer. I know they are going to piss me off, so I find the nearest table around to unpack my hammer. I then take out my testicals and start bashing away at them with the hammer until I pass out. Now I control the pain..... freedom !


    What ?? How did I get to this ? This is what I experience.

    The world has gone mad.
     
  17. #17 Andre Lefebvre, Jul 9, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2017
    I honestly can't make sense of your example, but that's OK. I think the world is filled with people who want to be liked. They are from varied cultures, genders, social status (some don't even have one), they feel invisible, disconnected from the "important" flow of what ends up on screens, or they don't even care about metallic shiny machines because they are still unable to have clean water and at least one meal a day. Some people are used to be liked, it's not even an issue, others have developed a hunting instinct for that necessary validation of their existence. Do our opinions about others supersede what their families and friends think about them, though? Do our opinions nullify the good that they do, or mask the evil they do?

    The media sure has worked hard trying to slap its own vomit on Trump, hoping others would join them and create a movement to topple him. This whole thing has gotten way out of hand, imho.

    In the meantime, the President is busy making deals and working with other world leaders to bring change in a world that has become quite unstable. Of course he has his own values and has to work within the constraints of means, and opposition. Well, nothing has really changed, has it? No matter who is President, the government machine still rolls, wars are fought or ended, world hunger continues, extreme poverty still keeps the richest countries in a state of shameful misery. Because that's how the system works. No matter who is king for a day, humanity still tilts towards selfishness and apathy, and neglect of other cultures.

    Change will have to be part of a global movement of evolution. Curiously we can share the message of hatred and division better and faster than the message of hope and justice, because the latter will cost us, maybe dearly. Many of those who point the finger at Trump for doing so during the campaign (and beyond) find themselves seemingly incapable of walking out the opposite of the message they decried in him. I don't excuse his blunders, but suggest that if we oppose certain ways and values, that opposition should ideally be manifested in acting differently.

    Trump is a new breed of world leader. I'm watching big powers react to having him across the table and making deals. I'm cringing sometimes at his tweets. (Thank God he has a speech-writer). But it doesn't make him a bigger creep than the other choices offered to the American people. And like I did with Obama (whom I totally was happy to see elected), I'm giving Trump at least two years to prove himself. I think that is a reasonable time frame. I'd want the same for myself.

    But anyone's image can be idolized or destroyed based on speculations. I wish the "resistance" would be more concerned about real daily life for Americans, no matter who is in power. That's how companies , institutions, non-profits, etc operate. They need to compose with who is in office, and they do it. For the sake of the people who depend on them.

    My .02
     
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