The Name Game Pro Tip:
  1. Didja accidentally blow through the whole, "We're using our real names" thing on registration? No problem, just send me (Mike) a Conversation message and I'll get you sorted, by which I mean hammered-into-obedient-line because I'm SO about having a lot of individuality-destroying, oppressive shit all over my forum.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. You're only as good as the harshest criticism you're willing to hear.
    Dismiss Notice

More Adventure Stories

Discussion in 'Critique & Feedback' started by Alexander Schiborr, Oct 2, 2017.

Page 1 of 4
  1. #1 Alexander Schiborr, Oct 2, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
    Here is something new I am working on actually and it was not so much the goal to create something very original instead trying to mimic the sound and mood in that same vein of the reference track. Sure I am fighting here with my own skillset and my libraries. I did that because I would like to also write more stuff which is a bit more busy and all over the place
    So here is my take so far:



    Here is the reference:



    So I need some input from you guys. Having said that: It was an extremely tedious work to programm that shit. And sometimes I ask myself why I am doing that.

    I would like to know from you about the balance in my track still referencing the original, I would from you some opinions about my own take and yeah..where I can improve it. I did in particular a 2 hand piano version before. So it is not like that I just banged in the orchestra stuff.
     
    George Streicher, Aaron Venture, Paul T McGraw and 2 others like this.
  2. #2 Doug Gibson, Oct 2, 2017
    Well, I personally never mix my own work. So I am sadly of no help there. Obviously the string ostinatos are much more in the foreground of the TSFH. It's not a bad thing yours is more in the back ground. Umm........ some scores you might want to check out (that I bet they know of).



    Once you get to about 35" in. That's a very famous orchestral passage.

    About 20 years later this often pillaged piece still sounds like a modern film score


    Not my favorite composer but... for fast string stuff only



    You just gotta be patient for it to build up.

    This score inspired the Matrix opening



    Sounds tame now, but a piece with a good catchy tune that goes pretty fast


    There are many more..... sounding good !
     
    Aaron Venture and Alexander Schiborr like this.
  3. #3 Phillip J. Faddoul, Oct 3, 2017
    I'd love to hear the 2-hand piano version. Can you post it??
     
  4. #4 Alexander Schiborr, Oct 3, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
    Sure, here:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/azrvidbmze645fl/Alexander_Schiborr_More_adventure_Stories_Piano.mp3?dl=0

    It is a very basic sketch just for voice leading, harmony. Some few lines I altered at end, like the last melody going up, but it is pretty much that. To be honest: The piece from thomas is nothing but simple. The whole thing is just blown up by the way how it is orchestrated. 80 percent there is the decoration around the core which makes it sound "sophisticated". But it is not..I mean it is from a standpoint of orchestration and the way how it is technically done. But apart from that..all very very basic harmony..major chords..lydian typical film mood..some modulation shifting to generate interest. Having said that: It doesn´t make it easy to create such track, because the way how the decorative orchestration is done is not easy at all and it requires a lot of thinking and tweaking, also considering that our normal commercial samples are no "performances". So it is very hard to make them sound like a real performance.
     
    Paul T McGraw and Phillip J. Faddoul like this.
  5. #5 Phillip J. Faddoul, Oct 3, 2017
    Thanks!
     
  6. #6 Louis Calabrese, Oct 3, 2017
    Your 'extremely tedious work' pays off in the result and you do it because you don't have a 55 piece orchestra behind your desk and want it sound like you do. To me it holds very well to the TSFH, and I do listen to lots of their stuff

    I honestly have a ton of questions about how you go about your VI mockups that I don't know where to start in a post response. Any chance your up for a Skype convo? I'd have no issue throwing some money your way for it too.

    That aside, my biggest issue on my work is that I feel my instruments are way too forward in my mix. I use the tactics that Mike and Blakus have suggested for panning and placement but I find I always play them in too loudly. Then when I manually fix the CC swells and volume it looses the organic feel and it's never right. I honestly try to do as much work as possible in the DAW and only lightly master. I don't mean to divert from your questions but I'm sure others could benefit from this knowledge as well.
     
  7. #7 Doug Gibson, Oct 4, 2017
    Yeah ! Now were getting somewhere.

    Screen Shot 2017-10-03 at 11.18.55 PM.png
     
    Aaron Venture and Louis Calabrese like this.
  8. #8 Alexander Schiborr, Oct 4, 2017
    Hey Doug,
    Many thanks for chiming in. The examples makes sense to me. Some good advice here. When I would like to add that practically a lot of Williams / Silvestri repertoire from the 80s is also pretty useful. But sure I guess you wanted a bit more to shed some light on the origin here. So you have a mixing engineer who is doing the stuff for you? I have not the luxury to work like that, when my clients ask me to do things, I have the bitch for everything: midi mockup, performing, mixing and the mastering. Sometimes that work can be tedious because you have to work on so many levels. But who isn´t. I guess the majority of the other mates here are in the same boat
     
    Paul T McGraw likes this.
  9. #9 Alexander Schiborr, Oct 4, 2017
    No problem Louis. If you feel that your instruments are too forward in the mix, than can have quite different reasons. But did you checked you micing levels? I don´t with what libraries you work, but when I do try to move instruments more back in the mix, I normally use more ambient mics then. Sometimes I tame also the highs in addition a little. Panning the instruments? Well panning makes sense when they are dry, or not recorded in seating. Otherwise panning instruments recorded in seating can be very difficult and can end up messing with the natural stereo and perception of position --> It can sound articifial. Not sure what Mike / Blakus said exactly, probably they meant something different.

    Having said that I am doing one on one classes for a few guys. Those classes are inidividuel and aimed to write orchestral music with samples. In those classes I do cases studies with them. We write pieces together and so on.If you are interested in those things, just let me know.
     
  10. #10 Alexander Schiborr, Oct 4, 2017
    I thought to share also this with you. That is an idea for my a section. Still I am fiddling around with the notes to improve the stuff.
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/792dpk0hv...re_adventure_Stories_Piano_A_Section.mp3?dl=0
    We talked in your thread about the melody thing with the High C and so here is my approach for the A Section. As you notice my melody is very simple and in the repetition part I just changed a little the harmony and at the end I intensified the resolution approach. Maybe that helps you also a bit. So this is how I do it and there are many other ways. I actually think that putting the melody on French Horns works but the the very high notes are for my taste maybe a bit questionable because it is not easy to nail intonation and and pitch at loud dynamics.
     
  11. #11 Louis Calabrese, Oct 4, 2017
    Doug

    Lol, it's only fair. Any musician who has the knowledge and takes the time to teach it in dedicated study certainly deserves to be compensated for their time.
     
    Doug Gibson and Paul T McGraw like this.
  12. #12 Louis Calabrese, Oct 4, 2017
    Those room tactics are something I've tried to employ but I guess I'm not using enough finesse. I use channel tools and delay in Sonar for Left / Right panning and use mix levels on reverb (plus the specific location impulse from QL spaces) for depth panning. I've done mock ups before but maybe something like what you did above with the TSFH piece - direct side by side in the DAW - would be best to really calibrate my setup. I definitely succumbed to 'library acquisition syndrome' and bought too many to list, but suffice it to say, I have most of Mike Verta's template, just with EW and Impact Soundwork's percussion instead of Spitfires. At this point I'm not buying anymore libraries, but as suggested, spending more time writing on the piano before even going near the samples.

    I would like to work on some studies with you I wish my regular job and time weren't so full over the next month - maybe in Nov. I'm actually a trumpet player in my company's band (yeah, it's cool we have a lot of talented fun people) and we are playing a gig later this month. I'm also tasked with recording it, so i'll have some live stems to mix / master which could be another area I'd love to review as I've never done that really before.
     
  13. #13 Paul T McGraw, Oct 4, 2017
    @Alexander Schiborr loved your "More Adventure . . . " track. It sounds great. As previously mentioned, I agree you could bring the strings a little more forward, but other than that you are far beyond my skills. I particularly want to thank you for the Two Steps From Hell example. I had not heard of them. I guess they are using samples like the rest of us, but they sound really good, but not really better than your recent tracks.
     
  14. #14 Doug Gibson, Oct 5, 2017
    Of course, and highly agree. My daughter has turned me onto the show Sponge Bob. It's pretty funny actually.
     
  15. #15 Doug Gibson, Oct 5, 2017
    Whoa !! You have a "bitch" for everything. So intrigued..... tell me more !! (insert record player stopping suddenly sound) Wait....... do you mean YOU are the bitch for everything ? Oh.... not very interested in that.

    It's another topic for another thread, but yes to answer your question (I never mix any project I work on, I bring professionals in) and I will not release anything (out side of just posting silly things here or for basic demonstration purposes) that is not recorded by real musicians.
    Actually I really have to credit Robin Hoffmann for that. (I suspect you know him ?) We were speaking about 4-5 years ago and I was complaining about how the time it took to tweak the samples vs the pay was not worth it. In that very direct German way he just said "stop doing it" and it all just made sense. I have not had to slave over my samples since, I have only bought 1 library in the last 4 years (Studio Strings) and do not miss it a bit.


    That said....... I have gone a different path with my career and I am very happy and grateful where I am. I do not propose to be so arrogant to know anyones individual situation and what is best for them.
     
    Luke Johnson likes this.
  16. #16 Alexander Schiborr, Oct 5, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017
    Yes, Bitch for everything means that I am doing every aspect of my productions on my own. I barely involve third parties into it. Sure I know Robin quite a bit. Look Doug, it is great when there are people who help you, but not everybody can work like that. That is the reason why I spent a good amount of time into the craft of mixing because I can´t rely on others Plus I also can´t afford others to pay because even my own budgets are relatively tight and there is no money left to say: Ok..lets try this or this guy. So in the end I have to make sure to be very good at all stages of the production of an orchestral track.

    Another aspect is that I have projects where tracks have to be done literally overnight. So I get a request in the early evening and the track has to be done at least 8-12 hours later. There is no time of thinking really, you have to go or another one does the Gug. In such cases I can´t just hand out things because everything has to be done at such a fast pace and again: The budget is the most crucial factor. That is also the reason why I do those little experiments above.
     
  17. #17 Doug Gibson, Oct 5, 2017
    It's all good. You are very good at what you do, and any skill one learns can only serve them. I am sure you will continue to get many gigs and be very successful. Of course I wish nothing but the best for your career.

    I was making a little joke above. I knew what you meant all along. Maybe it's the black shirt, the top hat, that you wear sunglasses indoors, (and are German) that made me think ....maybe he has a BDSM/ Vi mockup dungeon. A stupid joke that did not make it through the pixels.
     
    Luke Johnson and Alexander Schiborr like this.
  18. #18 Alexander Schiborr, Oct 5, 2017
    I know! (not with that I am good at what I do but how you mean it) :) Ah and your jokes are great, I definitely had a good laugh here! :):D
     
  19. #19 Luke Johnson, Oct 6, 2017
    Just to confirm. It did make it through the pixels.
     
  20. #20 Alexander Schiborr, Oct 6, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
    @Louis Calabrese Hey thats no problem at all. I thought to share a bit more of my 2 handed piano thing, the structure I followed is:

    Intro
    A Section (2x)
    B Section (2x)
    C Section (1x)
    Intro (modified)

    Maybe a cliffhanger could be good for the end (is missing in this version)

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/d7nbp0ifk...ore_adventure_Stories_complete_Piano.mp3?dl=0

    So we have here a very simple structure. You can definitely make more out of it and going even other ways if someone like so.

    If you have questions ask me, I can also share my midi project with you if you like. There is no secret or holding back informations. So just let me know!

    I like the chipmunks! lol
     
    Luke Johnson likes this.
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 1 of 4

Share This Page