Don't Orchestrate Yet!

Couldn’t agree more, Mike!

I’m self on piano and my ‘unique’ performance style definitely comes out in my work. How I compose, orchestrate, harmonize, add rhythm, etc. all comes directly from what my hands do on the piano; for better or worse!

(mostly worse

 

Urban legend is that Stravinsky himself could not play the piano version he composed, so he brought in a composer who was a better pianist
to read through it with him. That pianist/composer ? Claude Debussy

 

While I follow your thinking and basically see where you are coming from, I am not entirely convinced. I really appreciate you Mike, and I have learned a lot from you directly and from videos, so please do not take this wrong.

I am not a pianist. Never have been. I played cello and trombone and sang. Well enough that people paid me to do so in the 1970's. I am very knowledgeable about CPE harmony and musical form. But while I can plunk out chords (slowly) and play a melody (not too fast) I am otherwise NOT a keyboard player. So does this apply to someone like myself?

If your answer is yes, which I can see why that it might be, then I suppose I can write for a piano virtual instrument. My problem is when I "hear" in my mind something I want to write I tend to hear it with instruments. But that is something I would just have to find a way to work around. Counter melodies and contrapuntal lines might be more of a challenge.

Just a few other questions please. Since I am not a pianist how do I know what is practical for a pianist to play with two hards? Will it matter if it is not practical to play with two hands, since it is only a sketch anyway? And lastly, what about sustained notes? Is it a disadvantage to write a piece when sustained notes are going to be sort of crippled on the piano?

 

Actually, I have a couple of pieces that I have been noodling around with, and I was going to post them as they are now - two handed piano - but then I thought that since everyone else is posting orchestrated stuff, I should wait until I have got them orchestrated, (and with my current workload...)

So I am really glad you posted this Mike.

I'm going to get them recorded and ready for the ritual slaughter ceremony....

 

I am sure Sensei Verta will have insightful comments that shall illuminate the answers to your question.

Some suggestions from a mortal.

Yes.

It was

That's good

Make sure you notate it out.

Don't work around this. You want this. You can simply write in text "violins" or "brass" next to the notes if you need. Using your inner ear and imagination is a good thing. Certain passages ( and this is why you need to include dynamics and articulations in the short score) are going to be super obvious when you come back to them of where they go. As far as writing "idiomatically" for instruments, your orchestration chops and ability to change figurations will take care of it. Since you have your compositional foundation already when you get to orchestration you can give more attention to these issues.

Another thing you can do to practice is simply take a piece for piano and orchestrate it. This is what most orchestration classes do.

As an exercise: If you don't know this piece listen to the first 30 seconds. What instruments do you hear for the orchestration ?

Also, Pictures at an Exhibition is basically the "Autumn Leaves" of orchestration. I believe there are 20+ published versions by different composers.
Almost all of them are very good. Ravel is just the most popular. Seeing/hearing the different approaches is insightful

I would think they would be even harder in full score. I sometimes compose in full score. But in the past few years in particular I find the short score is indeed well worth it. I also notice I get blocked less.

You can always leave out octave doubling's or do the old Col 8va/8vb thing. Meaning if you look at short score sketch for orchestra you will often see say a violin part and a "col piccolo" 8va. (not that instrumental combination, of course, just the short hand)

If you are really running out of real estate then you can do a version for two piano. If you are not aware of it, Holst's Planets was originally for two pianos and he later orchestrated it into the version we know today. See below

Put your foot on the sustain pedal. Don't shut off your inner ear either. It's not a battle between the two. I am sure you can imagine most instruments and sonorities sustaining.

Plus, training your fingers does indeed train your mind. Especially when your mind is leading the fingers. Try and imagine every thing you play a milli-second before you play it.