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Western Theme - Ryan Leach July Competition

Discussion in 'Critique & Feedback' started by Duncan Formosa, Jul 7, 2023.

  1. #1 Duncan Formosa, Jul 7, 2023
    Tried to take a stab at writing a piece for the composing competition Ryan Leach released this month. Not done a western piece before but this is what I came up with today. Might need some tweaks here and there. My dad doesn't seem to be a fan of it, so curious what other people think. Might need to come up with something else!

     
    Matthias Calis likes this.
  2. #2 Michael Lückgen, Jul 8, 2023
    I think I have to agree with your dad there. You can write better melodies than that.
    But you nailed the idiom in my opinion.

    0:13 remembered me of the Silverado score (not sure if it is too close, or if only composers hear that those parts are similar)
     
    Duncan Formosa likes this.
  3. #3 Matthias Calis, Jul 9, 2023
    Hey @Duncan Formosa, fun to see you're doing the competition too!

    I've listened to a lot of the entries being shared on Ryan's discord and so far, the vast majority are focused on a quiet, sunset kind of mood. Your piece is the first one I've heard that is going in the same direction that I'm going in, trying to call back to big, bold themes from decades ago.

    I actually like this melody, though there is something about it that doesn't make it quite "click" on a first listen. It feels like you got 80% of a strong melody, the first 10 seconds are great, but after that it doesn't feel quite right yet, mostly because 0:13 does indeed sound a lot like Silverado so it stands out like it doesn't belong there. I may not have recognized it if I hadn't been on a Broughton listening spree the past month, but unfortunately for you I was :)

    0:20, the B section doesn't quite land for me. I do like the counterlines in the surrounding brass, but I am not completely sure this is the B-section you're looking for. It does transition very smoothly from the A section though.

    Overall I think there's a great piece in there, but some iteration may be needed to get it out:

    - Iterate on the (ending of the) melody. Honestly I think you're maybe 2 or 3 note changes away from a memorable line.
    - There's a block-chordy feel to the current version, despite some of the counterpoint already present.
    - The B section isn't as strong as the A and comparatively feels a little underwhelming. Your call whether to redo the B section or try to patch it up through orchestration first.

    Some more inspiration/reference, in case you need it:



     
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  4. #4 Duncan Formosa, Jul 9, 2023
    I've listened to some other entries as well and was quite surprised just how slow a lot of them are. When I look at that image I think "big adventure that's about to start."

    It's a funny story because I have been studying the Silverado score for the past month using the omnimusic publishing book. I said to myself I would try and do a western based on what I learned from the main theme at some point and then this competition got announced. I started laughing and thought "well, at least I've got a goal and a deadline now."

    It's been a bit annoying though because now all I can hear is Silverado in my head whenever I try to do anything. The initial B section sounded way too much like silverado for my liking so I've really been struggling there for sure.

    I've heard these pieces as well, in fact "How the West Was Won" is where I got the brass stabs idea for the B section! It's funny, I didn't realise how difficult writing a western was going to be. There are very specific chord structures to give it that vibe and I'm finding it a little limiting because all I can hear are other tracks when I play them. Maybe I just need to try and ignore that and power through and see what comes out of it. It's been a good challenge though!

    Hopefully I can either develop this idea further and make it sound stronger or come up with something else.

    Annoyingly I'm going on holiday for a week this month so I'll have even less time to work on it. Of all the months for this competition to land on it had to be this one haha!
     
    Matthias Calis likes this.
  5. #5 Duncan Formosa, Jul 10, 2023
    Tried tweaking the A theme just on the piano. Is this clicking any better?
     
    Carlos Riesco and Michael Lückgen like this.
  6. #6 Duncan Formosa, Jul 12, 2023
    Made a few more adjustments on the piano. What does everyone think? Getting any stronger?
     
    David Healey and Bjarke Tan like this.
  7. #7 Bjarke Tan, Jul 12, 2023
    It's pretty good but I feel like I am missing more action in the bass. It would create more contrast or tension i guess if you would change the focus from the top register to the low register at times some more or just switch register more in general as it mostly stay at the same place with the exception of the ending.
     
  8. #8 David Healey, Jul 13, 2023
    I think the A theme is really nice, but I don't think it's "Western" enough. It sounds too Disney, reminds me of Go the distance from Hercules. The B section is more where the West is.
     
  9. #9 Tom Welsh, Jul 13, 2023
    1. Trumpet sounds weak at 0:16 when it finishes the phrase (too low in it's range / out of it's comfort zone). Maybe it could use the support of something else like the horns or change the melody so it ends higher?
    2. 'A' section sounds fairly legit and idiom is clear otherwsie
    3. 'B' section needs a lot more love - sounds static and uninspiring. The melody by itself is perfectly servicable so I'd definitely keep that as a starting point.
    4. I liked the return of 'A' and the ending was fun.
     
  10. #10 Duncan Formosa, Jul 13, 2023
    It's been a while since I hated working on a piece of music haha. This challenge is a lot harder than I had anticipated!
     
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  11. #11 Tom Welsh, Jul 16, 2023
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2023
    An idea to add some more motion in the B sect.

     
    Michael Lückgen likes this.
  12. #12 David Healey, Jul 16, 2023
    The other day I watched a movie called Iron Will. Not a Western but the score is heavily influenced by the genre, I hear Copland and Broughton throughout. Anyway, one particular track, The Race Begins, I think might give you some inspiration. The main theme reminds me of the kind of themes you write.

     
  13. #13 Stephen Limbaugh, Jul 17, 2023
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2023
    I think there's incredible difficulty in writing something that doesn't sound like corny 90s adventure music. You could maybe try considering Native American and Mexican instruments...
     
  14. #14 Duncan Formosa, Jul 23, 2023
    Just got back from my holiday and came up with this new idea. I think it's a bit better than the first one?

    Still need to work out how I'm going to introduce the trumpets in the B section so they don't come out of the blue at the end. Was originally just going to leave it with the horns but the register is a little low, so the trumpets help fill it out a bit. Once I figure that out I don't think it's too far off being finished in terms of orchestration.

    Let me know your thoughts

     
    David Healey likes this.
  15. #15 David Healey, Jul 23, 2023
    Is that uilleann pipes in the opening?
     
  16. #16 Duncan Formosa, Jul 23, 2023
    Yep. Was having a conversation with my dad while we were away and he brought up Morricones western scores. I then mentioned that in the Danny Elfman masterclass (the one with Danny Elfman in it) he mentioned he once tried writing a western with an Ocarina and was told "you can't do that, that's Morricones sound for westerns, he owns that!"

    So, we thought it might be cool if I found an instrument that's not typically used in western music and try to make it my thing. I picked Uilleann pipes because I know there were a number of immigrants in America that came from Ireland, so thought it would be fun to add and it kind of has a bit of grit that you hear with native americans singing, particularly in the high range.
     
    David Healey likes this.
  17. #17 Tom Welsh, Jul 23, 2023
    I've got to admit, I preferred your first attempt. I would totally stick with that and just work on it's B section.
     
  18. #18 Carlos Riesco, Jul 26, 2023
    I think your 1st version fits better this statement.
    The new version tells a different story to me.
     
    Michael Lückgen and Tom Welsh like this.
  19. #19 Duncan Formosa, Jul 26, 2023
    Just listened to this, and I thought MINE sounded like silverado haha. Think that was probably the temp score that they used, it's using the same orchestration ideas beat for beat after the 20 second mark. Still a nice track though, never heard this score before
     
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