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A Land of Myth Piano Sketch

Discussion in 'Critique & Feedback' started by Duncan Formosa, Aug 16, 2020.

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  1. #1 Duncan Formosa, Aug 16, 2020
    Came up with this a couple of days ago. Kind of on the fence about the ending and debating how to go about orchestrating it just now. Maybe going to keep it simple with just piano and strings, maybe adding a celeste very quietly with the piano every now and then, especially the beginning. Let me know what you all think :)

     
    John Eldridge and Michael Lückgen like this.
  2. #2 Michael Lückgen, Aug 16, 2020
    Hey Duncan,

    I like this a lot! Sounds really great, emotional and dreamy.
    Just one idea: at 1:27 maybe play the melody in octaves for a bigger ending? Or maybe you like to keep it small here.

    For the orchestration I would suggest looking into the Ori Games (Ori and the blind forest and Ori and the Will of the Wisps). Some pieces have a very similar tone to it and they often feature the piano and strings. I think it would be a great fit here!
     
  3. #3 Duncan Formosa, Aug 16, 2020
    Hey Michael,

    I'm glad you like it. I was thinking of having 1:27 in octaves to begin with but then thought to save it for that moment in 1:59. In my head the piece starts off with the wonder of all the mythical creatures and what not and at 1:59 there camera pulls out past everything to show the landscape and then once that's revealed the orchestration gets stripped back to mirror the beginning (at the moment I'm thinking piano, really quiet celeste to give the piano a different feel and some strings up high)

    Also just had thought. Maybe it might be better not to move to cmajor at the end and end it on the sus4. What do you think?

    Also, funny you should mention Ori and the blind forest, I literally just bought that game for £4 or something. It's been on my wishlist for ages. Funny how these things turn out haha. Might try and transcribe some of those pieces and hopefully get some better ideas on how to orchestrate it.
     
  4. #4 Michael Lückgen, Aug 16, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2020
    Oh man both games are absolutely brilliant and have a really good score from Gareth Coker. He also did a GDC talk about it, in case you are interested in how to write for games. I really like his philosophy in terms of interactive music here.


    Sure, it may fit better to end the piece to finish not fully resolved.

    Again, it's your piece. :) My first impression was that at 1:27 we get the full soaring orchestra (or at least soaring strings), but then you played it more softly.
    My approach would be to go big at 1:27 and pull back again at 1:41 (have small pause after that, let the strings hang or something) and pull back even more at 1:50 with piano only. Then bring strings back at 1:59 for your final.
    But I don't know... just brain storming here...
    Probably it would be best to go with YOUR instinct here, since you had a clear goal in mind. Don't let my thoughts distract you from your vision.

    Looking forward to the orchestrated version!
     
  5. #5 Duncan Formosa, Aug 16, 2020
    Looking forward to getting a chance to play the game and seeing how the music fits in, will definitely check out the GDC talk.

    We'll see how long it takes for me to actually finish the orchestration, I always end up spending way longer than I should on it and never getting the result I'm hoping for (just as well nobody hires me to do this.)

    One thing I'm curious about, I got a comment on VI control about this piece which says this.

    "That initial theme is so cool, I wish it stuck around longer too and got spooled out and developed in its own right after the little bridge after its first appearance....

    I believe you have some very cool blocks, very emotionally satisfying, but for me it seems like you charge into new material for the sake of returning strongly to the original theme. Its reappearance comes after a bridge, then some noodling on a B part that repeats twice, and a climax in that new place. Who is this new character?"

    Is this something you felt listening to the piece also? Thinking of maybe tweaking it a bit more but then there's that worry of over doing it and maybe making the piece weaker.
     
  6. #6 Michael Lückgen, Aug 16, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2020
    Hm not really. If you want to tweak something then I would try the part from 0:34 to 0:50, it could be stronger maybe (I think that is the bridge he is talking about?).
    I played around with it a bit and maybe this part would be great for a reharmonisation/development of the main idea, as the guy proposed.
    However I don't think that you have to. The piece works as it is for me. And you probably had an intention for the bridge part there. It kinda feels like you are waiting for the picture to progress, but it flows nicely. A reharmonisation into a darker place would mean something very different though and change your story.

    I would keep the B part (0:50 to 1:26) as it is. It feels good, it totally works and from my perspective it is a development of the main idea and not a new character. You are building and repeating the same motifs and it feels strongly connected. At least for me.

    Yeah I can relate to that. With my last piece however I changed my approach and it worked out nicely for me. It got even better than I imagined and I was pretty proud of it for the day at least. Then I heard your sketch and now I think I have to get better to match up with your skills :D

    How do you approach the orchestration usually?

    I found that mapping out beforehand, when to get louder, when quieter, or when I need more motion, or want to reduce the motion helped a lot, instead of just choosing instruments.

    Also in order to not have too big orchestration changes between sections I split my sections into half and lead my instruments form one section into the other.
    For example:

    A (part 1)
    M: Violins 8ve
    CP: Piccolo + Flutes
    C: Clarinet + Viola + Horns
    B: Cello + Bass

    A (part 2)
    M: Violins (drop 8ve)
    CP: Oboe + English Horn
    C: Viola + Bassoons + Horns
    B: Cello + Bass + Tuba

    As you can see I kept the violins, Viola, Horns, Celli and Bass. Thus the change is not so drastically. In my previous pieces I had quite hard orchestration changes.
    And I introduced the Oboe and english horn in order to prepare for a trumpet part after the A section, since they have a similar timbre.

    Maybe this helps a bit.
     
  7. #7 Alex O'Hagan, Aug 17, 2020
    Hey Dude this is sweet. I agree with with Michael on looking into the ori soundtracks for orchestration inspiration. They have a similar vibe to them that you might like.
     
    Duncan Formosa likes this.
  8. #8 Duncan Formosa, Aug 18, 2020
    Most of the time I'll just try and jot down on paper what I hear in my head when listening to the sketch before I go to the virtual instruments. But when I got to the virtual instruments that's when I find some of the ideas don't work. Not sure if that's a limitation with the software, my knowledge of the software (still working on trying to play VST's to make them sound more expressive) or it could just be the idea simply doesn't translate well at all.

    Either way, I find myself often going "it's not quite what I was hearing in my head."
     
    Agatha Chelsea likes this.
  9. #9 Duncan Formosa, Aug 19, 2020
    Tried to find a way to extend the first idea a little but I'm not sure if this is on the right track. My instincts were telling me to keep going to the same places I had already been most of the time, so now I'm not sure if this is maybe just making it too repetitive.

     
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