A Fairytale Wedding

Your brother and fiancé are lucky to have a composer in the family. They are going to love this.
And they lived happily ever after...

 

Well....... take my 2 cents with a big grain of salt. This is not a compositional aesthetic I personally enjoy
(Disney style; It my issues. Not yours. Billions love it.)
Add in on top of that the fact it is for a wedding and of course a really lovely gesture/present for them. So I feel like a dick to
put too much a critique hat on.

So before I comment:
1. Does it sound like a Disney film: More or less yes. The vibe is there, and you captured the emotional nature of these soundtracks in your original piece.
2: Will they love it: Of course. I am sure what you have right now will blow them away and they will listen to it for years.
3. You are obviously a good composer...... so I can be more direct and to the point, as you have the grit required to learn the skills.

That said...... I offer my honest thoughts with a "tough love". Please ignore if they do not help you.

The piece is totally generic in the truest "general" sense of the word. Yes, I feel like it could be a wedding song, but I could also be watching a waterfall over a mountain, a princess waking up in her castle, the perfect village square, or any other Disney image that makes my skin crawl. (my issues)

From a compositional craft point of view the rhythmic aspects are the most "vanilla".
If it were I...... I would try and personalize the music via "rhythmic codes."
For example it could be from their names, the vows they are choosing for the wedding, to other wishes you want to put in.
Doing so can make for really effective "leitmotivs". This would all remain instrumental of course, so the words are just "hat-racks"

A a hypothetical, lets say the names were "Thomas and Andrenna"

Just say it in plain spoken everyday terms. How would you notate the rhythm ? What meter ? Come up with a set of different ways.



You can stack in the other the "leitmotivs" for counter-melodies later.




I think the nice thing would then be that they can listen back and aside from a very pretty piece have something that is really unique and meaningful to them.

Here is a piece I did years back for a spy camera company. I did the same thing in the retro big band style they wanted


Here is the end result. The main theme enters at 27. You'll here it through out the whole thing. Especially at 3:27 on.

 

Just my 2 cents man. Nothing more nothing less. All great art allows multiple interpretation. Funny thing is I could start a whole thread on how non-specific, film music has become. We have had a ton of those threads in the past 5-10 years. I also stated that it was "general", and by all means if thats what you want... perfectly fine. I get it. She/he likes Disney and this certainly has that vibe to recall those memories. Just my 2 cents man. Nothing more nothing less.

Do this for me to test it yourself. Say superman 5xs out loud. Go on. Su-per-man. Think of all the qualities you would associate with Superman.

Now listen to this, and at the 12 second mark

The fact I could also put "eat my lunch" to the same rhythm is totally irrelevant.

Now say the words Indiana. In-di-an-a. 5xs.

You can probably easily hear the: In-di-an-a, an-a Jones
You could sing "This is silly____, I don't care" but again that does not disprove the use or "hook" effect created.

A friend of mine, when he got his DMA from Julliard was accepted as a student of John Williams at his Tanglewood residency. I heard 2nd hand that Mr. Williams himself suggested the technique as one of many he draws upon. Film music was born out of Opera man. It was a device Steiner and Korngold etc. used a lot.

Do or do not. That is all.

 

This is really interesting and I will definitely be trying this! Thanks for sharing, Doug.

About the piece, I really like the overall sentiment Luke! I think a stronger motif could help and give an even bigger emotional impact throughout. A little 'anchor' the listener can really grab onto would be great and ultimately better serve your piece.

A lot of the heavy-lifting/work is actually done as the production/orchestration is really good!

 

Sorry for mispeaking!

What I meant was, I hear the anchor and just think the melody can benefit from some more rhythmic/intervalic interest.

In this sense, you can definitely keep what you currently have and make some minor changes to the theme which would make it a bit more ear-catching. A bit of syncopation, triplets, rests, etc. could help the listener 'hear' it more easily.

Again, most of the work is done and this is a small change that shouldn't take to long but would have a big effect!

 

@ Luke: I am sure they will love the piece. No question there.

I am a bit surprised if you have not thought about this. Particularly if you are fan of Menken. (Ahh....fucking auto correct)
If not for this piece, which is perfectly fine, than in the future if you have a day for experimenting I think you will find "Gold in them hills."

Just think of all the instrumental covers of songs that have lyrics. There is a whole subject of music composition as "Art of Rhetoric" even if no lyrics are involved. Beethoven is full of this, particularly his 5th symphony. Think about the 3x time rule of repetition the next time you hear it. It's just like: I came, I saw, I conquered. By repeating yet varying 3xs it sticks in the listeners mind.

Of course, instrumental music let's you increase the abstraction and decoration. But by having a solid cognitive foundation it makes the music very easy to follow.

While I like the concept to gain ideas for motifs through names / word syllables, I was wondering where the personalisation really is manifested in? The qualities of a superman maintheme labeled obviously "as heroic and superman like"has imo a lot more to do with the instrumentation + harmony. Isn´t it? Also that J.W. chose to put the focal point on the french horns which gives them this heroic feeling. Also the intervallic structure is very clean and clear which makes the mainline there very noble but also a bit neutral and strong. So, I guess there are more factors coming in obviously.

Of course. I agree with many of the fine points you make. My initial comment was in specific reference to Luke's piece. His instrumentation and harmony were all ready perfect. Additionally with rhythm, and often broader for music composition as a whole, when you have 3 layers of music/rhythm then there is a certain magic to the listener. I totally agree that a piece of music is integrated as a whole. Like an onion.

The intervalic point is very good. However, I personally lean more toward a "contour" approach. Meaning that one can change the literal intervals and still recall the original motive. A basic example would be if you created a diatonic sequence. All scales will have major or minor intervals and even when the sequence passes through them it is very easy to detect.

For example imperial march motive totally stripped down:
The background has the military march feel. Thus the different rhythmic elements mean we hear them as separate but related. Even with the first note we get the 3x rule. (I don't think Williams had any words in mind for this. However with my crude humor and the story I would have sang: I'm here to fuck your ass, fuck your ass.)

Then you get the whole thing put together

Which shows how interesting intervals can be. If we had never heard it and just looked at the 1st measure it is plausible that Eb major is the key. That is all we hear is a simple major triad. But of course we hear it as Minor tonic, and as you state the harmony makes it clear what the melody intends. Intervals are a funny thing and people can have vastly different responses to the same intervals --- the whole world of reharmonization is based on this -- and similar responses to differing intervals (ie. look at measure 3. The intervals are different, but our ear will just hear it as a smooth continuation of the motif)

I could go on, and answer in more detail the points you made, but it would most likely be best over PM. I am still butt hurt from the other thread last week.
(I spent like 3+ hours detailing my points with clear illustrations only to have it fall on deaf ears. Just ..... "nah, your wrong I'm right" without a single solid
illustration backing your claim, or understanding of what I wrote. As such I think going forward I will begin limiting time for my posts. I am happy to discuss privately) Speaking of which I need to go to that other thread ........

Ok..... sorry Luke for the ramble. It is a very nice piece, and I hope in no way have I made you feel otherwise.

 

Disagreeing slightly with the other responses so far...

Overall, I think it's very nice as it is, Luke! The mix and composition are recognizably Disney-esque... the bride and groom will love this!.

It reminds me a bit of How To Train Your Dragon, probably the same or similar chord progression.

I would change three things:

1. Your big modulation is a great idea, but it's insufficiently prepared, and is only being justified by the string voice leading. It feels like a big reach. Need to really rethink that and put it on a firmer grounding harmonically. I can take a look at it this evening and maybe throw you some ideas? If there is a harmonic grounding already, then I think it needs to be orchestrated a little more strongly and broadly. Right now I'm hearing mainly the violins, and the percussion swell/push forward with the timpani and the harp.

2. I would also leave out the perc (kind of a wimpy cymbal crash?) at 1:25-1:30 and save it for the climax at 2:05.

3. Leading up to 2:43 I like the quiet, beautifully orchestrated restatement of the theme. I don't like 2:43 where it goes straight from the last chord of the restatement to the final tonic chord. It's a little too abrupt, I think you need some kind of bVI- bVII - I or some kind of other little coda that wraps it up.

Overall, though: your orchestration chops, your mockup and the overall mix are really to be commended. Very curious what you're using for the strings, brass and winds here?

 

Love the piece Luke. I'm considering having a do-over of my wedding just to get you involved.

Doug raises a very interesting topic about syllables, but unfortunately overlooked the most notable use of this technique:

 

Your modulation from Dmaj to F#maj is certainly a tricky move. It will sound great if you can pull it off convincingly.

After some thought, however, I could only come up with a few suggestions..



I think we need to light up the Bat-Signal for @Mike Verta on this one!

 

I found the video where Mike talks about modulations - here's his Up Maj3rd modulation:

 

You got that wrong - this guy made some video with that motto - from that perspective - reverse engineered (not really, but it's nicely done)