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Should I score a film in 7-14 days??

Discussion in 'How to Score a Film in 7 Days' started by Jaroslav Pevno, Feb 1, 2019.

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  1. #1 Jaroslav Pevno, Feb 1, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
    Should I take the job scoring 90 min independent "kickstarted" half-documentary with 60 mins of music required? Deadline is 1 week, maybe I can haggle for 2 weeks. $1k upfront, $3k after they "sell" the movie. The movie is going to the festivals. To get the gig I need to score their short "test" scene that they're giving to people (?). What they said about the music "...Of course some of that will be very simple strings but some more complicated.. Some pieces we can re use as well." But ain't this is the case with a lot of movies? So that's not making the job easier.

    My thoughts: $4k in total is decent money for the 1-2 weeks of work here where I live, It is a fantastic money for that.

    My concerns:
    1) Can I even do the job in 1 week (maybe 2)? Is it even possible if your're not Mike Verta?
    2) $3k when they sell the movie - more like IF they sell the movie?

    My experience:
    I've scored a 2 hour fantasy movie that had 80-90% covered with music. I had a help from another composer, so I scored about 60-75 mins of music for that film, roughly in a month. Only thanks to this masterclass and "Scoring 1".

    Currently trying to find out more about deadlines, and they're waiting on my response on scoring a short scene as an audition.

    This seams like a decent practice, but I'm worried I won't be able to deliver in time. Any thought? Have you dealt with payment after they "sell" the movie?

    Thank you in advance for your input.

    P.S. Oh yeah, the movie looks fun, something I'd like to score.
    P.P.S. Had no idea where to post this, so...
     
  2. #2 Mike Verta, Feb 1, 2019
    Nobody can tell you if this is a job to take, though I can tell you to only and ever consider it $1K. Their comment about the nature of the music shows they're not musically literate, which is always... fun. I mean, I wouldn't do this gig, because I can tell these aren't the sort of people I'd have fun basically working for free with. But I'd also be looking at their work and how competently they've set up a palette for me to paint on. I audition clients, not the other way around.

    Like you said, this could be good practice and some money in your pocket with little consequence, but this must be a question you ask yourself. Is it worth it - the time, the money, the effort, the reward. There's no wrong answer.
     
    Leonardo Badinella, George Streicher, Rohann van Rensburg and 1 other person like this.
  3. #3 Jaroslav Pevno, Feb 2, 2019
    Thank you for the reply @Mike Verta

    In terms of audition: I would do that, because there's no other way for them to know my work. The film I scored hasn't been out yet, and there's not a lot of my music in the internet. Almost none.
    In terms of money: $1k isn't even going to cover my "studio expenses". Like rent, and not doing other jobs in that time frame. I could even loose money being completely occupied with this one job.

    Here's an update:
    Time frame for the job is 4 weeks. On their kickstrarter page they display allocation of the budged, and it had $2k (out of $120k) for the music, which means they had $2k upfront but decided to spend half of that on something else. And it confirms their low attitude towards music.

    I replied to them something along the line: "your movie deserves more than what could be done for that money" - thank you Mike for "The Business" masterclass, it helped me to find a good wording for that.
     
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  4. #4 Martin Hoffmann, Feb 2, 2019
    That's brilliant! Would you recommend the business class as a general freelancing class, or is it mostly "composer-specific"?
     
  5. #5 Jaroslav Pevno, Feb 3, 2019
    I would say that generally it helps to adopt the right attitude in this business. And it has specific stuff about what works and what doesn't. Even if you're not a composer, I'd say it worth $30 just to get proper perspective.
     
    Martin Hoffmann likes this.
  6. #6 Alexander Schiborr, Feb 3, 2019
    I wouldnt do that shit job and would tell them to.....well, imo they dont respect you. Big middlefinger from my side.
     
    Rohann van Rensburg likes this.
  7. #7 Jaroslav Pevno, Feb 4, 2019
    This is actually very interesting. It goes like a textbook example.

    Here's what they replied to my email: "...there are SO many talented people willing to work for that price. BUT I want to consider you because you obviously are very talented"

    I'm starting to feel a bit of desperation from their side. They asked me if I can do a "...quick demo track for the scene linked below", so that they "...have an idea of what working with you might look like"

    The scene they attached was 3:16 in length and had all the drama that could happen in that time.

    To which I replied:
    "I'm sure you can find someone to do this job even for free. The quality of that work is going to be questionable, but at least you're going to be able to spend music budget on something else.
    Scoring scene of this complexity takes up to full day of work. Unfortunately, it can't happen before we can agree on basic terms.    "

    And then I mentioned and linked some of my works so that they could "have an idea of my work".

    My point here:
    I'm not going to do any work until we can agree on at least $2k down payment, that they've listed on their kickstarter page. This would mean I wont loose money doing this job. Basically free exercise for me.
    But even if they agree on $2k down payment, I'm not going to score 3 min scene as an audition for free. 1 to 1:30 min - probably.


    P.S. I hope someone here might find this discussion useful. If it's totally out of place, we can close it.
     
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  8. #8 Alexander Schiborr, Feb 4, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
    Boy...I mean, don´t get me wrong: Its up to you spending your time with whatever you like to. But why you are even that nice and answering them? I mean..you are better paid as a trainee in a normal job at sears or walmart. Did you break down the hours you have to put into that project and what rate you are going out of that project? Its not even a 2 digit number per hour. My tip: Just ignore them and head on finding better opportunities where you a). paid not like a slave and b). the people respect you. This is total bullshit und unprofessional people. But yes they try and try again to squeeze out the people even working for free. This is a prime example of people where I even don´t reply anymore and I should create a mail autoresponse with a middlefinger gif. If you are not totally desperate in getting some cash..don´t do that..don´t ...read my lines here.."Dont do it"...see? ;)...Good luck and I hope you find better projects.
     
  9. #9 Jaroslav Pevno, Feb 4, 2019
    I appreciate your input on the matter. And I totally agree with your point. But I feel like if I'm not gonna tell them, how would they know that this is ridiculous? Someone has to teach them, and I feel this obligation. This is why I'm replying to them. I'm not gonna do this job (99.9%).
     
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  10. #10 Mike Verta, Feb 4, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
    Be the change. Be professional where they are not. You have been, and that's commendable.

    As I've said many times, remember that you are a market of one. You have a unique product that nobody else can provide. The moment a client mentions other people, they are saying they're not looking for you - they're looking for a "composer unit." They're saying, "There's nothing special about you. We can get lots of people to do this." They don't value or recognize your unique product. That obviously affects every aspect of the relationship.

    Imagine telling a prospective girlfriend that there are plenty of other pussies you'd just as soon fuck, she just happens to look nice, and needs to blow you once so you can see if you'll date her. Her reaction might well be, "I'm not just 'some pussy,' and if you want me to blow you you're going to have to earn it." Or, "Fuck off." Either way, this is exactly the scenario that is happening.
     
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  11. #11 Jaroslav Pevno, Feb 4, 2019
    This is a very good point. For some reason I haven't thought about it like that, and it totally makes sense.

    Some people suggest to take such jobs "to get credits". But I don't think it worth the headaches. It's like getting into relationship, figuring out that your partner is not going to change, it's getting worse every day until inevitable breakup happens. And then telling everybody how bad your ex was. When in reality you should've been more selective.
     
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  12. #12 Samuel Diaz, Feb 4, 2019
    I've taken tons of indie and short film jobs for credit or low to average pay, depending on what you consider average, and have found that in the long wrong it's really not worth it at all. Yes, some jobs have led to others especially when the clients are happy with your services and but my problem is that many times I've undervalued my worth as a composer just for the sake of getting a project and I've actually come to regret it about 98% of the time. Last year I took a stance and stopped doing any sort of film scoring gigs where I felt i was severely underpaid or under appreciated, even if it was for a previous client or it meant losing a potential gig. Honestly It actually felt great plus I felt more confident in my self worth, experience and abilities as a composer. That was until I had a moment of weakness recently with my last gig which was for a 2 1/2 minute car commercial :(

    Long story short, the company they contracted to do the commercial were the ones who hired me but supposedly they only had a budget of $300 for the music with a 3-4 day turn around. I asked if they can go a little higher to $500 but they said they didn't have any money left at all (which was probably bullshit) but I was so excited that it was a Kia car commercial that like an idiot I took the gig anyways completely ignoring my own rule about budgets and self worth as a composer. As you can imagine, there were so many picture changes throughout those few days that I ended up having to do a ton of rewrites and barely even slept because the director would be calling or texting me in the middle of the night with new changes for the music to show his client the next morning. Tbh it was insanely stressful and it probably would have been worth it if I had charged more but it was my fault that I didn't and what Mike said is very true, If I had declined and stuck to a higher rate (which by the way should have been even more than $500) they would have just gone with someone else. I saw it through to the end because it's not in my character to bail mid project but to be taken advantage of like that is a really shitty feeling and no gig imo is ever worth that. Lesson learned on my part, and I hope you can learn something from my mistake.


    -Sam
     
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  13. #13 Alexander Schiborr, Feb 4, 2019
    Wow..man, I am sorry to hear that. And I don´t know what to say...but I talked with other mates from the industry and this what you experienced is unfortunately very symptomatic for an industry rotten to the bone. May the eternal purgatory be their final destination.
     
  14. #14 Samuel Diaz, Feb 4, 2019
    Thanks Alex, I mean it was my own fault for getting into that position in the first place but I agree it really does suck that that's how it is sometimes. I, like you and Mike, just want to make other composers aware of what they are getting themselves into as well. Oh, and Amen to the purgatory comment lol :D
     
  15. #15 Alexander Schiborr, Feb 4, 2019
    Its good that you share your experiences here, so others can see, learn from that and be careful with their own clients. I can tell also some shitty stories as I have been in the funny music business for quite some years and know how it is with that things...There is also a rule what I have which maybe sound strange to others but be more self confident:

    I never work for clients which I don´t know without an upfront payment, it needs not to be that much but a security, also do contracts for bigger projects. And If they anyways want to pay me, they can make an upfront payment in case some shit is happening and they decide to go by someone else. If not I am out before I turn on my workstation. Of course I don´t do that with long term relationsships I have worked for over years because I know the clients and often they offer me payments prior without I need to ask which in such cases I even dont do and tell them: its all fine. But I just want to make a point also with that shitty demo submission bullshit: Dont submit and make that demo crap and waste your time. They can listen to your works, sent them examples of commercial works you did (in case you can share) and thats it. The problem is: All these douchebags buying a sony video cam thinking they are filmmakers but in reality they are just some backyard garage junk trolls trying to find composers who work for their shitty movies for free. Its hilarous. Thank you internet and globalisation. Always also look on the background of that people who request you doing music for their projects. Try to find out what they have done, look at their vita. Often by basic research you can allready see with what amateurs you have to deal with or better not.
     
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  16. #16 Rohann van Rensburg, Feb 4, 2019
    Glad to see composers sticking up for themselves and being ambassadors of sorts, and more importantly, sticking up for the craft. Well done.
     
  17. #17 Rohann van Rensburg, Feb 5, 2019
    I much prefer Mike's take on this. If you need credits, find people that actually appreciate your work. I'd much rather get paid little to work with awesome people on a project I believe in than work with people who view other creative aspects of film or game or television creation as dispensable.
     
    Samuel Diaz likes this.
  18. #18 Rohann van Rensburg, Feb 5, 2019
    Indeed. I've heard videographers and visual artists go off about this, and appropriately so: no, you don't get a demo to "see if you like it". Look at my previous work, and hire me or don't hire me.
    Beginning composers are way too damned desperate and it really sullies the integrity of the craft. In the long run, what's more important -- the fact that you made $500 off a terrible gig and wrote subpar music for people you're embarrassed to have worked with, or would you rather have made music you care about and done fewer or more specialized projects? Thanks for sharing your experience!
     
    Daniele Nasuti likes this.
  19. #19 Jaroslav Pevno, Feb 5, 2019
    I had similar experience with crab sticks commercial. It was iteration after iteration after iteration. And when the music was finally approved by director and producer of the video, the guy from the crab sticks company said that it had not enough "magic". It turned out that by "magic" he meant ukulele and claps. I made the mistake agreeing on payment upon delivery, but thankfully, even though my music wasn't used in the final video, video production company payed right after I did the job. Payment was supper low, even for this market. Basically minimum monthly wage, but for the work that took me one hour to do before iterations started to happen.
     
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  20. #20 Rohann van Rensburg, Feb 5, 2019
    My goodness. That's about as egregious as someone wanting a track to be more epic and needing more brass bwahms.
    I wonder if it's more appropriate to charge per minute of music, with a certain amount of rewrites allowed. I've heard Jeremy Soule really recommend getting a good lawyer for contracts when they get serious.
     
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