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Kuwait Film Symphony Orchestra

Discussion in 'Opportunities' started by Abdulrahman Al-Othman, Jan 27, 2019.

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  1. #1 Abdulrahman Al-Othman, Jan 27, 2019
    Hi,

    I am partnering up with JACC (Sheikh Jaber Al-Ahmad Cultural Center) to hold the first film concert in Kuwait.

    BACKGROUND:
    The Sheikh Jaber Al-Ahmad Cultural Center (JACC), informally known as the Kuwait Opera House, is a prominent cultural center in Kuwait, located on the Gulf Road in the capital Kuwait City. It is the largest cultural center and opera house in the Middle East. The cultural center is part of the new Kuwait National Cultural District (KNCD). The cultural complex, which includes theaters, concert halls, music centers, conference and exhibition halls, cinemas, libraries, center for historical documents, and public park, took two years to complete. It is 214000m² in size and had a budget of US$775 million.

    QUESTIONS:
    1. What is the best orchestra I could bring from outside in your perspective to do this professionally and be able to give the audience the Hollywood sound live?

    2. Do I need to acquire permission from the owners to perform their music? (I have a team of professional arrangers who can transcribe the entire music program just by ear).

    3. If I'm doing published scores, would I still need to get permission?

    4. From your perspective, would a 130-piece orchestra sound ideal to you for any Hans Zimmer work?

    NOTE:
    Kuwait situation is complicated, so I'm not sure if we follow any copyright laws. You can download torrents here and nobody will knock your door about it. You can almost do anything here without getting sued. I'm not saying I want to do this the hard way, but I'm just tying to explain my complicated situation here.

    IMPORTANT:
    Perhaps, if some of you have a direct contact to Disney, DreamWorks and Warner Bros, or the respective artists: Hans Zimmer, Alan Menken, Harry Gregson-Williams and Joel McNeely?

    All the Best,
    Abdulrahman
     
  2. #2 Alexander Schiborr, Jan 27, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2019

    häh?

    1. The Guys from L.A.?
    2. I think so?..
    3. see 2
    4. No..at least 200..

    Man..honestly..is that some serious talk here? Excuse my question..but all of that you can find out just by doing some basic (but very basic) research via google..

    Why this huge letters, I have bad eyes, but not that bad.;)

    PS: The Roomsize..I have to find my meter...maybe give them a call on Monday..and what is the hard way?:eek:
     
  3. #3 Abdulrahman Al-Othman, Jan 27, 2019
    Haha, sorry. I was writing it in a small screen, so I had to adjust the font size. But yes this is real.
     
  4. #4 Alexander Schiborr, Jan 27, 2019
    Ahh..allright. Well, you have my answers and good luck.
     
  5. #5 Thomas Bryla, Jan 27, 2019
    First of all: team up with a contractor and librarian.

    1: LA or London. Many European orchestras are also good for concerts though.
    2 and 3: NO. You don't need permission to perform any public material. You just need to pay the royalties for performance. Kuwait or not. If you take it down by ear you don't even need to rent the score and parts.
    4: It's a bit too much for Driving Miss Daisy. Consult with your arrangers.
     
  6. #6 Doug Gibson, Jan 27, 2019
    Respectfully, you need to hire someone with the experience and expertise to do this. I cannot fathom all the possible unexpected things that can go wrong.

    The first place to begin (not on internet forums !) would be to contact ASCAP/BMI. They can point you in the right direction, and you have to get in touch with them
    anyways. They can give you the names/numbers of people who will oversee the licencing of the music for the performance.

    Then you need to find a "fixer" which is the term for the person who make their living booking orchestra players for gigs.

    This would only be the tip of the iceberg. There are reasons why artistic organizations have full time staff members.

    I would think there are visa issue's too. If someone enters on a vistors visa and is actually getting employed thats a big no-no over here.

    Basically there would be so much admin.

    Lastly, let's say you decide to kick it Qatar style and ignore everything, and put up scores taken down by ear, and pay everyone under the table in cash:
    They would not be thought of too highly back in LA. I would think they would be blacklisted for sure ....IMO.

    I mean downloading a torrent is one thing. Ripping it, selling tickets/ advertising using there names without permission, putting on a public concert is whole nother
    level of dickish-ness.

    ______________________________________________________________________

    I understand that is not you intention, and why you asked is to find out. If you don't ask how would you know.
    Contact ASCAP/BMI and go from there.
     
    Rohann van Rensburg likes this.
  7. #7 Doug Gibson, Jan 27, 2019
    Huh ? Can you clarify please. Usually by paying for the licence to perform the work - and according to their pay scale - that is permission.
    No License no permission.

    Is that what you meant or is it different in Europe ?

    Perhaps too what you meant was that this venue would already have a contract with PRO's based on it's size etc, and you can just pay accordingly based on their license.

    I would still think this a but risky, as some scores can be considered unpublished. I would think one could argue any take-downs by ear are arrangements and would need an extra fee.

    Glad I am not a lawyer
     
  8. #8 Alexander Schiborr, Jan 27, 2019
    2 and 3). Where is that source of saying that this is legal? A bit curious. According to what I know is that it is only allowed:

    a). Teaching activities
    b). Worship places (church)
    c). Schools (like non profit purpose).

    You know bascically everything which has no profit intention or has an educational purpose and that pretty clearly.

    So basically any performance that is not exempt requires permission from the copyright holder. Correct me if I am wrong! Thanks! And he is not even yet there that he can talk about paying royalties, he is a huge step before all of that..at least imo.
     
  9. #9 Abdulrahman Al-Othman, Jan 27, 2019
    I believe this will sum everything up...[​IMG]
     
  10. #10 Thomas Bryla, Jan 27, 2019
    Anything that is public (released on an album, played in the cinema or on the radio) is allowed to perform in public as long as you pay the PRO's. If you call this permission then yes, you need permission.

    Public in this regard doesn't mean the same as published since public just need to be that the work has been presented in any form to the public.

    You cannot obtain arrangement rights thus taking a cut of the PRO without permission from the authors.

    To the OP: this just clarifies that you need to take in knowledgable people and not do this on your own since there are many mines to step on. Get in touch with ASCAP/BMI as soon as possible... Kuwait or not.
     
  11. #11 Mike Verta, Jan 27, 2019
    All successful relationships are built on mutual respect. If you respect the work enough to want to perform it, contact the PRO's, tell them your plan, and get permission and resources for obtaining scores and hiring a contractor. Representing Kuwait as a sort of lawless Mad Max dystopia would probably not be in your best interests..
     
    Rohann van Rensburg and David Healey like this.
  12. #12 Leonardo Badinella, Jan 27, 2019
    If you are planning to fly orchestras around to play Hans' music. Why not flying him and letting his team sort that out? I bet you'll get a firm grasp on the possibilities of the venue and come out of the experience with enough knowledge to plan the next move. Bad idea?
     
  13. #13 Doug Gibson, Jan 28, 2019
    Last comment from me on this:

    The other thing about going about it properly is it gives you protection too.
    The music industry has a long history of "interesting" characters. Established pro's with good reputations reduces your risk.

    While I personally don't have experience with this, I have heard stories from colleagues who have. (different countries ...not a comment on Kuwait)

    Two red flags I have heard about

    1. Bait and Switch: A person claiming to represent XYZ and basically over promising and under delivering.
    So the claim would be "I represent the finest musicians of XYZ" and then in reality they are under skilled. Often this is done to save money.
    I don't want to name specifics, so let's just pick on Greenland (which of course is not true) to spell out the scenario

    "I represent the finest musicians of Greenland. (insert phrases about the long tradition of excellence, and using the word finest repeatedly).
    Due to exchange rates the finest musicians can be hired for much less than XYZ."

    Then if they are in another country and you have already paid them, there is really no way to recoup, and it would be discovered too late to save the performance.

    2. B.S Red-tape for a shake down:

    Again, I know nothing of Kuwait. This was in Turkey (fuck it.... this case was in Turkey). They hired some orchestra there and brought in a Russian conductor and I think
    2-3 Russian soloist. About a week before my colleague was about to travel, some ........ I don't recall the title of the person.... admin/political head contacted them
    with a new fee that was not in any contract before. Basically he ran the concert hall, and the local radio/TV etc. ie. holds all the cards.

    Long story short, the very convoluted red-tape was really just about getting a bribe under the table. It was very stressful for him.
    He bartered and reduced the fee to an acceptable level, but I know it left a really bad taste in his mouth and soured the experience.
     
  14. #14 Mauro Pantin, Jan 28, 2019
    ASCAP and BMI are not in my country either, but you can collect royalties on PRO fees internationally here. There should be some performance rights organization in Kuwait that has an agreement with ASCAP or BMI (or both) that would manage this, perhaps? Let me ask you this: When you write music and it gets played in a public setting/radio/tv station in Kuwait, how do you get paid?
     
  15. #15 Thomas Bryla, Jan 28, 2019
    Very similar story also happened to me in........"Greenland"....

    So yeah: do it properly and don't end up being 'that guy' just because you're out of legislation.
     
    Rohann van Rensburg likes this.
  16. #16 Abdulrahman Al-Othman, Jan 28, 2019
    Thanks guys for all your comments!

    I truly want to do it the right way. I would feel extremely comfortable knowing that the concert I'm producing is %100 legal. The problem is that Kuwait is a very complicated and difficult country. You don't get to see this everyday. I don't know if I mentioned this in the start of the post, but if I was able to do this concert successfully, then this would end up to be the first film concert in Kuwait history! I swear there hasn't been any film concert in Kuwait, not ever. I know, but its true and you have to believe it. Since the culture of orchestra is not part of our traditions, the market here is extremely small. The concerts we hold here are expensive and the profit we get barely covers the half of it. The people in Kuwait were not introduced to this before, so it becomes extremely hard to force this new culture in to their minds. The more the cost, the higher the tickets price which will lead to the point that becomes unreasonable for these people to pay, say 45KD (150USD) for a standard ticket as a starter! Without a doubt, JACC will lose big amount of money, but they had to, if they want to start a new generation for the Kuwaiti people.

    Yesterday, I've contacted the organizations you guys mentioned in this post. Waiting for their reply. Don't know how long will it take them. Another thing, I've contacted Disney — Music Publishing Department as well, but these guys didn't response. It was along time ago. Probably sent them 3 messages. I'll try my luck with these guys.

    I'm doing everything within my power to do this legally.
     
  17. #17 Thomas Bryla, Jan 28, 2019
    Now you introduced the layer of budget and culture of concerts in to the mix.

    If I were you I would consider this: Hire a European orchestra that regular does film music suites (City of Prague Philharmonic for example) and get them to do a concert with John Williams repertoire for example. Do this 3 or 4 times a year and you can keep costs down and introduce the culture before you blow it all on one big project.
     
    Rohann van Rensburg likes this.
  18. #18 Abdulrahman Al-Othman, Jan 28, 2019
    What do you think of Bulgarian Orchestra? I'm looking for fine Brass players. Horns are difficult to master.
     
  19. #19 David Healey, Jan 28, 2019
    Why do you want to force American culture in to their minds? I mean why not give them a concert of something they will enjoy...

    I don't think you can generalize the musicianship of an entire country :) I work a lot with some top Bulgarian musicians, I think they're great, but like all countries there are good and not so good musicians so it will depend on the specific players you are talking about.
     
    Rohann van Rensburg likes this.
  20. #20 Abdulrahman Al-Othman, Jan 28, 2019
    Well maybe I was a bit too much with the word "force", but we are talking about the term "film" music. So it doesn't always have to be related to US. I was planning to include some Japanese music from Ghibli, but then realized how hard it is to obtain Japanese license. So doing this the hard way or the easy way we will end up in the same conclusion. I was actually surprised by how much Kuwaiti citizens are in love with film and game scores. I already have friends who told me that they will pay for a VIP ticket if I included the Lion King music. For them its better to pay much here rather than go to say, London, Japan or ant part of US/EUR and pay for the whole trip + tickets. The JACC venue was established under the order of the king, so they planned to have a big budget to host any worthy event. I'm not joking when I say they already paid more than 600k USD to host a show can't remember.

    I am planning to hire THE best Bulgarian musicians and choir if it came to them :D
     
    David Healey likes this.
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