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Protoverse

Discussion in 'Critique & Feedback' started by Alexander Schiborr, Jul 8, 2017.

  1. #1 Alexander Schiborr, Jul 8, 2017
    Hi Guys,
    I posted that short flic on ViC, but here is the version with some Cubase Screencast.
    The composition is a bit wild and it was more the intent to get a feel for the sounds of the BH Library.
    Feel free to slamdunk it! :D
     
  2. #2 Benjamin Goldman, Jul 8, 2017
    Fantastic music and I really enjoyed the writing!
     
  3. #3 Gharun Lacy, Jul 9, 2017
    Alexander
    Nice work, sir. You nailed the feel and writing style. I love the way everything fits together like puzzle pieces. A section of sustained arc/legato melody or harmony to produce a moment of textural contrast would have really set the piece off. Great mix as well. Was that all BH? What do you think of the Lib? It was an act of pure discipline not buying it on release.
     
    Alexander Schiborr likes this.
  4. #4 Francesco Bortolussi, Jul 9, 2017
    I think you nailed the orchestration and the dramatic "development" on how it feels. The colors are very well used throughout the whole piece and it sounds legit to me. The intention is there.

    BUT, I feel like it lacks something to latch onto. You really need a recurring melody or some type of motif to ease the audience in. Otherwise it would only be an orchestration exercise, and people wouldn't be compelled to come back to it and listen to this piece again. This is the type of piece that would feel 1000x more satisfying with a melody to follow, and now it feels like it's only a "sound" test for the library with random "noisy snippets".

    I don't want to sound harsh, I'm commenting because I feel like you can set a mood very convincingly and you can make the template sound fantastic, so now if I were you I would focus mainly on melody writing.
     
    Alexander Schiborr likes this.
  5. #5 Claude Ruelle, Jul 9, 2017
    Very good orchestration and feel, but I'll have to agree with Francesco for the lack of a recurring motif in your piece. I really like the way your template sounds and I'd be curious to know what is your approach to it.

    Great work, keep it up!
     
    Alexander Schiborr likes this.
  6. #6 Alexander Schiborr, Jul 9, 2017
    Hi Everyone,
    Thanks for chiming in and of course I appreciate all the feedback, and I yes I agree that it has very less of a motif carried throughout the piece. The goal was probably also to stresstest the library a little to see what it can be done or not.
    I think it is a great sounding library just out of the box. The combined patches sound really cool and apart from the normal usage I guess. What the big big point of the library is how everything blends together and just sounds from one spot all together. That makes it really tempting. Also the drier approach lets you think more about your orchestration because no big reverb clouds the sound to hide bad orchestration.
    There was no big approach about the sound, I used actually here one of the 2 stereo mixes and dialed in a little reverb with the built in reverb slider on each instrument. Thats it. As it goes to postprocessing: a bit of EQ Boost around 10Khz and a final limiter. The template is also pretty small, like 5 Gigabytes in ram.
     
  7. #7 Doug Gibson, Jul 11, 2017
    Hey !

    Cool piece. I, for one, am glad there is not a "Tune". For example it is very easy to hear the return of the idea at "17 return at around 41".
    That all fine.

    Two spots that just did not work for me.

    1) The interruption at :22 until the cymbal. It just does not achieve its goal to my ears. I think a few things could help.
    one is have another layer of music. By layer, I mean a contrasting rhythm. Brass swell, or a horn sustaining etc. It gets two dimensional here.

    Another alternative is to orchestrate the crescendo. Hard to explain in text. Basically right now :22 looks like a block. Go down to one or two instruments
    and keep adding in the others until the cymbal. This will give it more of a push

    2.) The very last chord: What the hell was that? Don't do that. To be blunt, you are a much better composer than that.
     
  8. #8 Mike Verta, Jul 11, 2017
    I'm 5 seconds in and it sounds like I'm listening from a hallway outside the studio. Can you post a dry version?
     
  9. #9 Alexander Schiborr, Jul 11, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2017
    Hi Doug,
    Actually I wasn´t sure if that motif which I tried to feature was recognized. Thanks for the cool Tips, Doug, I try to implement the thoughs for a revision.
    Ok, :D The last Chord..I thought it was a cool contrast, but probably not that cool :D I will think about it..

    Yes, sure:

    This Version is close micing + a bit of room micing still, but no reverb:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4jkmai780mu1ffu/Alexander_Protoverse_CM.mp3?dl=0

    and this one is just close:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/f5owljc1p8lzqg8/Alexander_Schiborr_Protoverse_CM_2.mp3?dl=0

    Somehow I just listened to the versions and like them better than the reverbed version.
     
  10. #10 Doug Gibson, Jul 11, 2017
    Wow, the dry version sounds 10x's better. Well..... except for that last chord.

    I hope you know I only say this, as I have a tremendous amount of respect for your composing abilities. Friends don't let friends end sophisticated pieces like this. I am telling you, as if we have been out drinking all night and now at 3 am you grab your phone to call your recently ex-girlfirend....... don't do it.

    At the very least try this for me..... keep everything as you have it: Then when our cowboy chord (A major) arrives wait like a 1/2 second to 3/4 of a second (where things trail off) and major 3rd below the upper A play F resolving down to E. Like an echo. That's it.
     
    Gharun Lacy and Alexander Schiborr like this.
  11. #11 Alexander Schiborr, Jul 11, 2017
    I will definitely try that out and make a version for it. Thanks so much, Doug and of course for the words, but honestly I often feel like a bloody beginner when it comes to writing long form orchestral music. Sometimes it is so depressing I start to get aggressive and stop sequencing because I just don´t find the right choices what I want to say.:D. The learning curve is such steep.
     
  12. #12 Gharun Lacy, Jul 11, 2017
    Real Talk right there. I just learned something. Good stuff fellas.
     
  13. #13 Mike Verta, Jul 11, 2017
    That's better, I can hear it now!

    Now, a question: How many times did you refer directly to the Back to the Future score while writing it? As soon as I heard the nearly bar-for-bar device cribbing from a couple of that score's cues, I thought: He's either directly copying, or he's thoroughly internalized it. If it's the former, that's totally fine - it's the next step after transcribing (trying what you've learned for yourself!) - and if it's the latter, then we can talk about the actual music of it. There is no right or wrong answer here; no better or worse answer to my question, but I will only be able to say something of value if you are honest with yourself and with us!
     
  14. #14 Alexander Schiborr, Jul 12, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
    Honest Answer: I didn´t copy anything here! I never was able to look at one bar of the BTTF Score (I wish I could do....) Sure I do love the BTTF Score and I practise the piano version of the maintheme every morning when I stand up + some parts of the chips theme. I saw your MC on Silvestri, and took out several informations.

    I did write that short piece in one hour directly to the sampled orchestra, I even don´t have a piano sketch done before. I just went by my instincts here: I opened a beer and there we go, it was really quick..and I had just 2 ideas of little motifs and some idea about the textureal components.
     
    Gharun Lacy likes this.
  15. #15 Mike Verta, Jul 13, 2017
    Okay, then I have good news and bad news for you: 1) The good news is you have started to internalize a particular shape/flavor/set of devices for moving colors and ideas around. This will come in handy. The bad news is 2) You're still doing what I mentioned to you in emails months ago, which is doing lots of "more" instead of lots of "focused and effective." I will encourage you to do something now, which I've recommended before, and which solves 99% of these problems:

    Take this piece, and reduce it to a two-handed, playable piano piece. Playable is key. Do this and post it. In this form, you will learn what the piece really is. You will learn whether or not its story is cohesive, clear, and compelling once you take all the window-dressing off it. All good pieces are good pieces in this form. Do it and post it. Playable, two-handed dry piano only.
     
    Rohann van Rensburg likes this.
  16. #16 Alexander Schiborr, Jul 14, 2017
    I will do a piano sketch and will post when I am done. Thank you for the honest and helpful feedback, Mike.
    While doing that I will also try out Dougs suggestion with the ending.
     
  17. #17 Benjamin Goldman, Jul 15, 2017
    Really interesting to hear the comparison between the 'Wet' and 'Dry' versions here. Completely different experience upon second listen-through. (No verb)

    I'm also intrigued to hear the piano version as well!
     
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