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Renal Colic

Discussion in 'Critique & Feedback' started by Sylvain Provenzano, Mar 7, 2018.

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  1. #1 Sylvain Provenzano, Mar 7, 2018
    I wrote this piano sketch to develop some sketching and writing skills. It's called Renal Colic because I wrote half of it while I grabbed my abdomen, writhing in pain until had to stop and run to the hospital in the middle of the night. I finished it the next day.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/0aksnk2qhtdagt0/Renal_Colic.mp3?dl=0

    Please, let me know what you think about it.
     
    Paul T McGraw, Alexander Schiborr and Matthias Calis like this.
  2. #2 Sylvain Provenzano, Mar 20, 2018
    Hey guys, I try to apply the "don't orchestrate yet" advice from Mike but I can't improve or correct anything without your feedback.

    Please... say something...

    [​IMG]
     
    Alexander Schiborr likes this.
  3. #3 Alexander Schiborr, Mar 20, 2018
    No worries, and sorry that I didn´t saw that. Give me half an hour, allright? :)
     
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  4. #4 Alexander Schiborr, Mar 20, 2018
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  5. #5 Paul T McGraw, Mar 20, 2018
    I am an amateur, so take anything I offer with a grain of salt.

    I very much liked the harmonies starting at about the 50 second mark. In general you seem afraid of repetition. I think you believe you have to have constant changes in the melody or in the harmonies. Perhaps that is wrong, but that is my impression. Let yourself indulge in some repetition. Not for the sake of adding length, but to drive home the idea to a listener. Your strongest most memorable moment is when the melody returns at the 50 second mark. Why not use that also as the opening theme statement?

    Another general comment, since you are writing about pain, use more minor harmonies and extended harmonies (9ths or 11ths) to achieve more angst through controlled dissonance when you go into the louder sections.

    It is an attractive piece and you have done a great job with it so far.
     
    John Eldridge, Sylvain Provenzano and Alexander Schiborr like this.
  6. #6 Alexander Schiborr, Mar 20, 2018
    Good advice :), thanks Paul for chiming in.
     
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  7. #7 Alexander Schiborr, Mar 20, 2018
    I see it like Paul a lot actually, beautiful harmonies and chords, maybe just be not afraid to repeat more. I know that struggle and fear with repetitions (oh can I do that, I don´t wan´t to bore the audience and bring all the time some great surprise and stuff) but...he is right..when I think about that..repeat the whole fucking great 30 seconds again in a different register with open voicings on the left paw. Why not.
     
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  8. #8 Sylvain Provenzano, Mar 20, 2018
    Alex, I also have a problem with what I call the B section @32" (I see my piece as A B B' A'). I think there's things to do to make it more fit in the piece.

    An amateur with professional skills. ;)

    It's true. It's probably because I listened to film music more than other orchestral stuff. I have to learn to take my time.

    That's interesting because I don't see why. Can you share your thoughts ?

    Interesting too because Alex said the V-I (to go back to the initial melody) is a bit too leading (or something like that, I need to re-listen).

    Thanks guys, for taking time to answer me. I'm happy you like the piece. You had given me some great ideas to go further. I'll try 'em ASAP.
     
    Paul T McGraw likes this.
  9. #9 Aaron Venture, Mar 23, 2018
    Lovely piece.

    I'd mostly echo what the guys already said. Beautiful harmonies, but I'd love to hear the entire 0:00 - 0:32 part once again before you move on. Add slight variations if you feel like it. Now everyone is comfortable with your melody and you can go where you please.

    Because you come back to familiar territory. And you can keep doing this type of thing. Just reinforce the melody. Melody once, melody twice, then go and do something cool like you did, and when you come back to the melody, everyone is back with you even if they were thrown off a bit by your cool-doing. Now you state the melody again and are free to, again, do crazy shit with the B-side, as long as you come back to the melody right after. You can start evolving the melody, just be sure that it's still discernible.

    That's about it. I like the rest of the piece.
     
  10. #10 Sylvain Provenzano, Mar 24, 2018
    Thank you Aaron for your feedback.

    Repeating things always make me anxious because I don't want to copy/paste but I usually don't know where to go (especially if the answer is "not too far").
     
  11. #11 Sylvain Provenzano, Apr 8, 2018
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  12. #12 John Eldridge, Apr 8, 2018
    I really like the fact that the rhythm and motions are pretty consistent throughout which gives it cohesion. So I was with you, but like the others said, I also found myself wanting to hear the simple version repeated more. I solved that on my own by simply listening to the whole piece 4 times in row. :) Nice performance, too.
     
  13. #13 Paul T McGraw, Apr 9, 2018
  14. #14 Doug Gibson, Apr 9, 2018
    Your piece desperately needs a counter-melody, and also remember off beats are your friend.

    Mix your melodic ideas into your accompaniment too. Will be much more interesting if you do.

    From 1:30 on you need more rhythmic independence between the melody and accompaniment.

    (As say this as I sip from my "Whatever Doug would do, I would do the opposite" coffee cup.)
     
  15. #15 Doug Gibson, Apr 9, 2018
    Just so I don't leave you in the dark. One of the nice things about improving ones craft is you can make more from smaller ideas.

    Let's leave aside questions of "better", or anything related to it. Just from your passage at 23 seconds to about 33 seconds, I took that material and made it 3xs as long while using the devices I mentioned above. You piece can easily become a 5 minute piece that is very interesting.





    PS. Is there some Leia's Theme in this ?
     
  16. #16 Sylvain Provenzano, Apr 11, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2018
    Thank you. I think about making the piece longer as it has been suggested but I'm not sure how to go there for now.

    Thank you, I've written it from your suggestions. I'm happy you like it.

    I agree. In fact I try to do what Mike does, and he seems to add counter melodies when he switches to orchestration.

    Thank you for your example. I will consider your advice but I'm afraid that the further I go the harder it will be to orchestrate. I think that a 5 min piece is too ambitious for me.

    My starting point was Marion's theme. :D
     
  17. #17 Doug Gibson, Apr 11, 2018
    I was not familiar with this piece. I just looked it up. Yeah..... it sounds like Leia's Theme (Marion's).

    You can study both to give you some clues on variations.

    Also to be clear: I was saying that it is perfectly possible to stretch out what you have already written to 5 minutes, without having to come up with new material.
    Just find ways to vary what you already have. That said..... if that feels too ambitious then by all means listen to your instincts. Better to complete a 2 minute work than leave a 5 minute version half way complete.
     
    Aaron Venture likes this.
  18. #18 Sylvain Provenzano, Apr 11, 2018
    By the way Doug, here's your mug with my actual quote :

    doug_s_mug.png
     
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  19. #19 Doug Gibson, Apr 12, 2018
    Ha !!!! Epic !! I love it.
     
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  20. #20 Alexander Schiborr, Apr 12, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
    I actually thought after listening to the track if you need that intro. The intro is cool, but my feeling is actually that it is not mandatory to feature an intro here in such cae. I mean..you can do that, but it is not that this motif urgently needs it, does it? Would you say that there is need of saying something which gives a better reason for whats following? The main motif is so self carrying and pure that I feel maybe just to feature even a simpler version of it before, maybe just a melody because actually I think is strong enough to live on its own.
     
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