The Name Game Pro Tip:
  1. Didja accidentally blow through the whole, "We're using our real names" thing on registration? No problem, just send me (Mike) a Conversation message and I'll get you sorted, by which I mean hammered-into-obedient-line because I'm SO about having a lot of individuality-destroying, oppressive shit all over my forum.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. You're only as good as the harshest criticism you're willing to hear.
    Dismiss Notice

Midway Track Feedback and help

Discussion in 'Critique & Feedback' started by Alexander Schiborr, Jan 20, 2018.

  1. #1 Alexander Schiborr, Jan 20, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
    So now where I help you also, I would need some help and critic on my own try here regarding those points:

    1. Composition
    2. Structure
    3. Motif Development
    4. Orchestration

    I have of course done 2 handed piano before..I can upload it if someone needs it for reference.

    Wet standard version:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ek41dog9ia4f37t/Alexander_Schiborr_Midway_West_Adventures_wetter.mp3?dl=0

    Dry Close Miced version probably better to talk about the orchestration:



    My approach was to have the following structure:

    1. Intro (stated 2x with cliffhanger)
    2. Main motif (stated 2x)
    3. short bridge (1x)
    4. B Section (lyrical 1x)
    5. Main motif (stated 1x with longer extended ending)
    6. Second B Section (lyrical 1x)
    7. Countermotif ( Stated 2x)
    8. Bridge (1x)
    9. Countermotif (Stated 1x)
    10. Main motif (stated 2x but with longer endings)
    11. Outro (noodling around lol), Cliffhanger

    I don´t know if you hear that structure but that is what I would say so. Now the question: Is that legit, or too much? Should I kick out parts? What would you do? Is the b Section okay? Do you feel that the countermotif has a connection to the main motif but setting itself apart as a dark inflection?
     
    Louis Calabrese, Saša Vranić and Paul T McGraw like this.
  2. #2 Paul T McGraw, Jan 20, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
    I like the composition. The difference in the dry and wet version is very interesting. What reverb did you use for the wet version? Sounds very good.

    I have listened to this piece several times now, both dry and with reverb. The structure works very well. It sounds like a great end titles track.

    The A theme is very memorable. It gets just a little clumsy at the end of the phrase, immediately after the syncopation. I wanted to hear a firmer cadence with a simpler rhythm. I could not really tell exactly where the first B theme began, and if it had a full statement of a theme I missed it. I think it was more of just a motif. The rest of the piece is so good, I think you could work in a full statement of a B theme and it would work out really well. Nothing sounds totally disconnected. Everything in the entire piece seems to grow out of the A theme and the B motif, which is exactly how it should be. Nothing is jarring, and nothing seems out of place.

    I really liked everything beginning at about 1:35 and from there on to the end. You had some moments of suspense, action, and triumph. Very impressive. And the orchestration contributed a lot to my pleasure in following the piece from that point onward. Lots of great stuff with the harp and the woodwinds. I would have liked to hear more from the woodwinds and the strings in the first 1:30. And more strings throughout, but perhaps it is just me. I think the balance of strings woods and brass is a little off. But it is amazing how much adding the reverb helps to blend the orchestra. I really appreciate the fact that you did not drown the piece in massive drum sounds. I am so sick of the giant drum sound washing out everything.
     
    Alexander Schiborr likes this.
  3. #3 Alexander Schiborr, Jan 21, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
    Nope, no Reverb here but tree micings added to the close. In particular I used the exact same settting like the close miced only version + I added tree micings. The procedure was that I soloed the single orchestra sections and listened to the parts and while listening I moved the tree micing fader back in "until" I felt: Ok, that is enough of ambient sauce. I actually felt that I can orchestrate better and more effective just using close micings..because they force me not to rely on clouding bad orchestration. So when something sounds shit in my orchestration I need to fix that, with tree micings thats not so obvious and you pass probably bad orchestration as ok, but not with close micings.

    Now to your points: It seems you enjoy most of the stuff I did there which let me think: Okay..I learned a bit to carry the listener throughout such a long piece of music. Which hopefully is a good sign. It is lately hard to me to evuluate where I am with my stuff now because on the one hand I try painstakingly to apply certain principles to make sure that the listener is not thrown of board but on the other hand I always fear still (and that comes from my older days) not write something that is total potty and mundane. Still I think I have to work more to make stronger b Section and melk them probably more.

    But now to your percussion mark: I never use pounding epic drums filling out my tracks. I hate that with a passion. I even go that far to say that I listened to other peoples pieces and they did that and destroyed the mood of the tracks which is painfully for me because some tracks I listened were quite good works and then they used this drummpatterns to fill out and it was just bad. Imo most of the composers would get nervous and bite their nails when they were not allowed to use any of those pounding drums in their tracks. I actually think you can only create a momentum with diversity otherwise you can´t. So if you want a grand moment you need to make sure that the parts before are quiter and not that big. Otherwise there will be no big "moment" to feel. But tell that the modern young producers and filmdirectors of these days...they will not comprehend that.
     
    Paul T McGraw likes this.
  4. #4 Saša Vranić, Feb 11, 2018
    Honestly, to me this sounds very PRO :) Have no any complains. Good details and rich composition ready for some comedy adventure movie.
     
  5. #5 Louis Calabrese, Feb 16, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2018
    You really love your Williams and it shows here. I follow you well from start to finish and don't feel like I've 'left the room' at any point. Your main theme has homage to the Raider's March and your B theme has homage to a dozen variations of star wars pieces that are the pleasant compliment to the large Brass fanfares. I've taken a bit of break from my attempts writing orchestral music (focusing on piano play/study) and have been playing Battlefront 2 - in essence listening to endless hours of all star wars. In my limited opinion it holds well to all that Williams stuck in my brain. Orchestration of these parts is clean and at your level of writing is beyond my ability to critique.

    I guess my only thought is that the main theme the first time around feels close to the opening of raiders, and I did a bit of A / Bing to see if i really felt that. I'm not sure if this is even an issue, as it might really be just an awesome achievement (Williams but not Williams).

    In anycase I'm a fan, what are your plans for this piece?
     
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)

Share This Page