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Looking for Piano-Sketch Feedback before Orchestrating

Discussion in 'Critique & Feedback' started by Sam Miller, Nov 16, 2017.

  1. #1 Sam Miller, Nov 16, 2017
    I'm practising my scoring with small scenes from different films. This week I'm working on a scene from BOLT. I've finished sketching on the piano and need to move onto orchestrating. Before I do though, I'd like to seek a bit of feedback and insight on what I have so far.

    Video and score are below.



    Click here for the score.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
    Sylvain Provenzano likes this.
  2. #2 Noam Levy, Nov 16, 2017
    3 main criticisms. Unfortunately they are "go back to square one" criticisms. :(

    1. Just looking at the picture muted, I'm feeling a significantly faster tempo than what you have. Something like 160-165. You never want to be holding back an action scene musically - always be at least as "Fast" as the cuts and actions.

    2. Music has indeterminate mood. It's fast and active but what is the mood? Anxious, excited?

    3. Music doesn't follow, and in fact is distracting from, the scene beats. Structurally and emotionally there are four parts here - 1 the start of the chase, 2 the bike ninjas, 3 the kid has an idea, and 4 Bolt to the rescue (but we're not out of the woods yet). The music isn't hitting these beats effectively. Going into the bike ninjas you have a modulation but it doesn't connote danger/surprise. We need to really up the ante and threat at least beginning with the shot of the helicopter looming overhead. Bike ninja theme isn't really menacing or effective. When the kid has the idea the music is still on the bike ninja idea and doesn't reflect action - the right hitpoint is either on cut-to kid or when he nods to dog. Notice the smash zoom in as the kid flips the switch and the motion blur as the dog goes into superhero mode - you are still on bike ninja theme here, this is clearly where we need to begin the 4th element of the scene. From here we have shots of the dog pulling the kid through traffic - lots of ways to play, this, could use the dog's theme, general idea of excitement/danger etc. This is a plateau in the scene and THIS is a good place to stretch out and do something with musical phrases. Earlier was the time to be on hit-point duty. Unfortunately you cycle through a lot of musical ideas in the 4th scene beat, I would prefer to hear just one (iterated, modulated, developed).

    Some reference cues (and notice the BPMs)

    (pure anxiety)



    (played mostly for comedy - notice how MG perfectly balances the thematic unity with still hitting every major action)

     
    Sylvain Provenzano likes this.
  3. #3 Sam Miller, Nov 21, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2017
    Hi Noam, thanks for taking the time to watch the video and provide such detailed feedback. It's appreciated.

    I went back into the project and watched the video with your suggested BPM. I think you're right - my tempo is probably too slow. In the past I've used the cuts to help me sort out a track's tempo, but that's ended up with me just copying the action on screen. I wanted to try a different approach this time. Instead of focussing too much on the action I've been trying to figure out what the scene needs to be 'complete,' to steal Richard Bellis' words. I wanted to focus on the drama of an increasing number of enemies and the inability to get away from them. Having said all of that, I still think you're right. Next time I score a scene I'll try to combine both approaches so I'm not giving anything away needlessly.

    I didn't think that the music had an indeterminate mood, but that doesn't seem to have translated as well as I imagined. I'm in the process of orchestrating the scene at the moment (I ran out of time to revise the piano sketch) and I'm expecting that it will translate the mood more effectively than I did on the piano. I'll post that here when I'm done as I'd love to know if your perception changes after it's been orchestrated.

    We agree completely on the four parts of the scene. The third part is missing from my arrangement. I knew I needed to get out of the bike-ninja part but just couldn't figure out a way to do it and move on again into the hero theme.

    I also agree with your points on the last part of the scene. I move into the hero theme, but then drop out of it too quickly. I'm going to try and extend that theme through to the end of the clip.

    Thanks again for taking the time to watch and provide feedback. Hopefully you're keen for another round once I finish orchestrating.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
    Noam Levy likes this.
  4. #4 Sam Miller, Dec 1, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2017
    I think I've gone as far as my current skill level will take me. I've learnt a few things in the process, but am still quite keen to see what light others can shed on the original sketch vs the orchestrated version.

    So, what have I learned? Orchestration can help to clarify the mood of a piece, but it can only go so far. It's not going to drastically improve the underlying arrangement and it's not going to change issues related to tempo.

    Cheers,

    Sam

     
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