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String Orchestra Arrangement: Chopin

Discussion in 'Critique & Feedback' started by Doug Gibson, Nov 23, 2020.

  1. First, let me acknowledge the fantastic @Alexander Schiborr who I asked to do the mock-up.

    It's been a little quiet on these boards of late, and I am pretty happy with my latest work.
    I took Chopin's famous Funeral March theme and used it as the basis for a fugue.

    Any comments or criticisms are of course welcome.

    Best wishes to all

     
  2. Cool piece Doug! Sounds like a happy funeral! Who's demise did you have in mind?

    On a more serious note, that must've been quite a lot of work. I'm sure you'll be able to get a live performance of that and I'd love to hear it. I assume what we're hearing now is NotePerformer and not Alexander's mockup yet? This would be quite a challenge to mockup to keep the dynamic arcs flowing with samples. Look forward to hearing that too. I have a couple of Fugue books I have yet to crack open as it seems a bit over my head at this point. Certainly more difficult than a simple canon. What I don't understand is how do you modulate and keep the themes intact?

    On a similar but unrelated note, I just got off a webinar with Danny Elfman and got to ask him how he wrote his Violin Concerto. He wrote it in DP in lots and lots of little snippets (using DP chunks) which he then assembled together! Apparently, he writes everything this way and it only goes to score when he sends it off to Steve Bartek to do the orchestration. His setup is very old-school and looks like something from back in 1986 in the early days of Performer - its exactly the same. Part of his success seems to be in how he keeps everything simplified even though he has techs to help him. The webinar was hosted by MOTU so presumably they'll post it at some point but they sure seem to take their sweet time. Anywho, congratulations on your fugue. I'd love to hear details about your process too.
     
  3. Well, there is too much for me to tackle in-depth. There are different types of fugues, and you'll find pretty early on the distinction between
    tonal and exact answer. For tonal, which this is, you have to have the mental awareness of which accidentals to modify to create the modulation.
    Additionally the voice-leading of step wise motion

    Here is the opening of what you hear Screen Shot 2020-11-25 at 2.33.25 pm.png

    So, in bar 5 to make it sound like F (the dominant of Bb) Eb is altered as is the Gb to E and G. In measure 8 you'll see F ascending to Bb uses the melodic minor so you have 5-6-7-1, and in the bass clef it outlines 5-4-3-2-1 of Bb minor, so when we arrive at measure 9 it feels like a return to Bb minor. (here is the 3rd entry of the theme)

    Make sense?
     
    Gregory D. Moore likes this.
  4. #4 Gregory D. Moore, Nov 25, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2020
    You make it sound simple (my fugue books are quite thick - Mann and others) but what you say is very clear and it does make very good sense. Making the reply tonal, copies the pattern (for the listers ear), but adapts it to the scale tones of the current implied chord if I understand correctly? That definitely makes wrapping around modulation (or just chord progressions) a bit more realistic for the composer.

    Unrelated odd-ball questions - ms.8 bass clef - 4th eight note is Eb right? (sounds like that in the mp3 too) then why do you flat it again on the 6th note? And maybe none of my business, but why isn't the first e (3rd note l.h.) in ms8 a natural? (as in ms.5?)

    Your explanation was so very clear. If you just told me it was so complicated, a fool like me would never understand, I'd have been far more impressed! (j/k). Thanks, sensei for the great explanation! You should write a book.

    Not sure if its bad form to share links to the dark side (on Elfman) but what the hell. Check this out:
    https://vi-control.net/community/threads/closer-look-at-danny-elfmans-template.101703/#post-4694092
     
  5. Fire away

    Correct

    Well...:oops: for that I only have a stupid answer: I often enter notes in Sibelius by using "R" and the up/down arrow as I find that to be the fastest for me personally.
    The one thing Sibelius does poorly is handle accidentals, and I should have caught that. Using "R" you can get these unexplained redundant accidentals.

    Both the Eb and Db are already covered in the key signature. :confused: We all need editors !!!


    You must mean the 4th note in the left hand.

    That I can actually answer simply: In measure 5 F should feel like a tonic, and in measure 8 the dominant. ( eb, and A natural create the "tonal gravity" back to Bb.)


    Sometimes there are a few paths to the top of the mountain, and each way you explain it gets you to the same point.
    For example: are you familiar with the baroque version of the melodic minor scale in which the ascending and descending versions are different? That's really all that is happening.

    The dip from F to E to F in measure 5 help establish the F as the tonic, and then from measure 6 since it is all descending we get the "natural" minor. (measure 6 has a Db)

    If you look at measure 5, and then measure 9 (not 8) that is where you will see the repetition of the "answer" at a new pitch level. (the soprano voice)

    Horizontally measure 8 is melodic minor and the vertical implied harmony is of F dominant.

    Cool? :cool:


    Me? I'm not sensei. No, I think sensei is at a gun range in Florida and watching Tucker Carlson at night. Hope he is doing ok.

    Often, when I have tried to write detailed explanations, I find I spend so much time having to explain the "disclaimers" that by the time I get to the actual subject I am exhausted.

    I always think about how the genre and context can nullify anything you write. For example, in jazz they don't really rely on the changing contour melodic minor scale.
    Rather the fact that it has two dominants and two augmented chords creates an ambiguity that jazz explored. It's really, really hard to write about music in words.

    I think JS.Bach probably had it right with his instruction books (Art of fugue, Well tempered clavier) just music.
     
  6. You probably already know this, but do you have the numeric keypad on your keyboard? At least for me that's the best way to put accidentals, using the floating keyboard (not sure if that's the correct translation, my Sibelius is in Spanish)
    upload_2020-11-25_9-24-46.png
     
  7. Hi!

    Thanks for the reply. Yes, I do. This happens not via inserting accidentals, rather redundant ones appear when using "R" for note entry.

    I just have not proofread the score closely yet.

    Cheers
     

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