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Trills and Runs

Discussion in 'Tips, Tricks & Talk' started by Cody Ortz, Sep 18, 2020.

  1. #1 Cody Ortz, Sep 18, 2020
    Hey all!

    Two things I find myself constantly struggling with are trills and runs. I've looked through a lot of different scores trying to wrap my head around them, but I find myself constantly asking the same question...

    How do I know what notes to do in a trill or in a run? Especially in the cases of 1) WW's trilling at the same time but on different notes and 2) harp glissandi.
     
  2. #2 Paul Poole, Sep 25, 2020
    Do you have an image you could post as example of what you're wondering about for your trill question?

    As far as the harp gliss goes, it's based on the pedal settings, so look for a tuning matrix in the score or part. If it doesn't have one then you'll have to deduce the gliss by looking at the other instrumental parts.
     
  3. #3 Cody Ortz, Sep 27, 2020
    Ah! I should have been clearer in my question... If I'm looking at a score, I know what the composer is doing with trills/runs. In a classical score, the normal "tr" is diatonic, so the next note up in the key (unless it's marked some other way) and in a film score (like the ones from OMNI), they are usually marked WT or HT. And same with harp, I'm good there--pedal markings or it just straight up tells you (D# C# B | E F# G# A).

    I mean in my own writing I struggle to pick the correct notes for trills/runs/glissandi. They shouldn't ALWAYS be diatonic, right? For instance... say I'm in the key of C. But the chord I'm on is G... should I use the notes from C or G? And why?

    I hope that makes sense!
     
  4. #4 Doug Gibson, Sep 27, 2020
    Sounds like you need to research modes a little deeper.

    Pick a starting tone - C if you must - and go thru all 7 modes from C. After you do this, harmonize each mode in 3rds. Up thru 9ths. 11ths, and 13ths.
     
    Cody Ortz likes this.
  5. #5 Mike Verta, Sep 27, 2020
    If you tried to academically decipher what I do in my runs, you would blow your fucking brains out.

    The predominant criteria I use for my runs is, "How much do I want them to hear it?" That determines the speed / duration, the octave or doublings, and how safe it is over its underlying chord progression. There are plenty of times in cases where orchestrationally I want a run to read a little bit over a very strong, homogenized chord, that I will deliberately put in some chromatics out of any particular scale or mode and you don't perceive them as dissonances, it just makes the run pop out. There's a little art to it, it can backfire if it's not right, but it's one of my favorite tricks. I discovered it by accident, on a recording where I had forgotten to update violin notes and I had changed the chord.

    You can justify anything academically, but for a billion reasons you should go with whatever, to you, sounds good. You should go with whatever thing excites you and not worry about what other people have done or will think of it. I never, ever, ever write music from the theory or academia outward.

    Runs are no different than anything else you compose. As I'm teaching Draco to write music, he holds a chord and I have him explore scales or really whatever he wants and I don't tell him what I think of it. I watch what he likes the sound of or doesn't like the sound of and it's remarkable how clear he can be about those choices.

    You can study a billion runs, and like everything else, there will be precedent, and things that work better or worse and all of that is fine, but I really recommend staying connected to your unique self. That self has certain sounds they like, whether other people have done them before or not. Remember, there are no wrong notes. There are no wrong choices. There are just those that other people may feel are more or less justified in context.
     
    Rohann van Rensburg, Martin Hoffmann and Cody Ortz like this.
  6. #6 Cody Ortz, Sep 27, 2020
    Thanks for the advice, guys! So I just need to do some more experimentation with them. I went to college for music (bachelor's and master's) and more often than not I find myself trying to fit things into a box or go about writing from the theory side of things. But I find it limiting me a lot more than it helps me. So this is helpful. Thanks!
     
    Martin Hoffmann likes this.
  7. #7 Mike Verta, Sep 27, 2020
    Theory is a language for analysing music, not creating it.
     
    Cody Ortz likes this.
  8. #8 Cody Ortz, Sep 29, 2020
    Word. And that is a habit I need to work a little harder to break!
     
  9. #9 Paul Poole, Sep 29, 2020
    I'm glad I asked for examples. As it turns out, I didn't understand your original inquiry at all.
     
  10. #10 Thomas Bryla, Sep 30, 2020
    I would take any good score that has runs that you like.
    Break them down in to short rips, longer run, 1-octave run, 2-octave run. Then look at whether they are doubled at the unison, an octave or two above/below and what instruments are playing. Pretty fast you'll get a handful of good combinations under your fingertips that you know the sound of. There are no rules on how to do them - just a thousand or so ways.
     
    Cody Ortz likes this.
  11. #11 Cody Ortz, Sep 30, 2020
    That's great man! Falls into that realm of transcription I think. I've been looking at some Williams scores (of course, Harry Potter, some Star Wars). Do you have any other suggestions on good examples to look at for transcription/study? Trills, runs, harp glissandi all good.
     
  12. #12 Thomas Bryla, Oct 1, 2020
    Whatever you like. Browse through some more Williams if you are into it. I feel like you learn the best when you study music that has impacted you.
     
  13. #13 Rohann van Rensburg, Oct 2, 2020
    Love finding gems like this, thanks Mike.
     
    Cody Ortz likes this.
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